TL7 Sports Car question (Campaign)

[Ragitsu]

If upgrading the TL7 Sports Car to TL8, what changes, if any, would you recommend?

[SuedodeuS]

I don't know much about cars, but I suspect you are very specifically not going to want to "upgrade" a TL7 Sports Car. People take pride in just how much of an old vehicle is original from the factory.

That said, if you want to ruin the value of your TL7 hot rod, I suspect the big thing you're going to be doing is replacing the engine. Modern sports cars are fast, even more so than the TL7 models were. To compete with that, you're going to want a bigger, better engine. The steering and braking systems might also be modified. Honestly, your best option would be to build from some sort of kit, swapping in a lot of high-end TL8 stuff, so that you get something that is for all intents and purposes TL8 but looks like a TL7 model. If you just go through and replace stuff, you'll probably miss out on one of the most important TL8 advancements - when you get into a crash, you are much more likely to walk away from it than in a TL7 vehicle.


EDIT: Rereading your post, I see that you are actually asking how one would modify the TL7 stats to get a TL8 vehicle, rather than how a character would go about upgrading a TL7 model. My apologies. I suspect the Move (both acceleration and top speed) will be better on the TL8 model, as well as SR/Hnd, and the vehicle would offer more DR to passengers in the case of a crash.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

EDIT: Rereading your post, I see that you are actually asking how one would modify the TL7 stats to get a TL8 vehicle, rather than how a character would go about upgrading a TL7 model. My apologies. I suspect the Move (both acceleration and top speed) will be better on the TL8 model, as well as SR/Hnd, and the vehicle would offer more DR to passengers in the case of a crash.

Yes. *laughs*. My apologies if the topic question wasn't worded correctly.

[TheSkywise]

I started a thread a few days ago regarding the definition and formula for determining a vehicle's stats. It is right here...

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=64533

Also, Collective Restraint's web page has some good stats for cars to base yours from. Here's his link:

http://free.7host07.com/spdesign/

Anyways, I think that it really depends on the car. While the tech improves in some areas, sometimes things move backwards (catalytic converter sucking power). Now, I am by no means a car expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Also, GURPs 4e does not seem to have the same level of detail as GURPs 3e when it comes to vehicles (this may change if VDS ever comes out); so eye-balling things might be the way to go.

I would love to help you. I have been working on stats for TL6 vehicles for my campaign (Roaring Twenties supernatural horror campaign), so I have been wrapping my brain on these questions. Give me the car's Real World Stats and let's see what we can come up with (or even just the year, make and model and I'll look up the stats!) for Game World Stats

[Ragitsu]

Believe me, TheSkywise, we're all looking forward to expanded vehicle rules. In the meantime, I just need to truly distinguish this car from a 1972 version.

I'll be taking a look at your thread fairly soon!

[Rocket Man]

Based on my own limited experience with the automotive world, the big change is likely to be in handling. Sports cars don't all have powerful engines, but they are typically designed to have excellent handling compared to other cars of their day and age ... and these days, with electronic traction aids (and the ability to add four-wheel drive without packing on a lot of extra weight), some really sharp manuevering becomes possible.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Believe me, TheSkywise, we're all looking forward to expanded vehicle rules. In the meantime, I just need to truly distinguish this car from a 1972 version.

What model specifically?

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Believe me, TheSkywise, we're all looking forward to expanded vehicle rules. In the meantime, I just need to truly distinguish this car from a 1972 version.

I'll be taking a look at your thread fairly soon!

Don't the stats depend on whether we're talking about a Porsche 911, Audi R8, a Lamborghini Gallardo, a Ford GT, or something else entirely?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Believe me, TheSkywise, we're all looking forward to expanded vehicle rules. In the meantime, I just need to truly distinguish this car from a 1972 version.

Let's see if we can get numbers for, say a Porsche 911 from 1972 and 2009. that ought to come as close to comparing apples to apples as possible.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/6...ra-RS-2.7.html

A very high end model, basically a race car. Key numbers are probably the 150 mph speed and the 5.7 seconds for zero to sixty which match the 5/75 speed of the "TL7 Sports Car" in Campaigns. It's actually lighter than the one in Campaigns.

It's probably about the model that would get the good Handling numbers listed though. Many of the 70s supercars are reported to have handled terribly by modern standards.

<shrug> What i actually know comes from watching Top Gear.

Changing only the date in our Search terms we get...

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...e-911-2009.htm

_Not_ a race car but the S model is close enough. The zero to sixty is down to 4.3 seconds and top speed is 302 kph or 189 mph. Rounding you could call it Move 7/90.

This is with a _very_ restrained engine by 2009 standards. Even though it's 75% more than the 1972 model 50% to double or more than the 2009 Porsche listed here can be gotten (if you're willing to pend enough money). At the highest end a Bugatti Veyron comes in at 1000 hp and zero to sixty in 2.5 seconds.

Handling is pretty subjective but the 2009 will definitely be better. I'd give it a full pt (at least).

This is probably about as much as you can say about the (unspecified) model in Basic.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Handling is pretty subjective but the 2009 will definitely be better. I'd give it a full pt (at least).

This is probably about as much as you can say about the (unspecified) model in Basic.

A friend of mine has a Boxster. High end cars like that one (and the 911 being higher still) alter braking and sometimes power to each wheel independently to prevent slipping and deliver maximum requested power (and that's all the throttle is, a potentiometer that requests power delivery from engines to wheels). Handling can thus be VERY good.

Personally, I have a 227hp Subaru WRX without those bells and whistles...and I still have a hard time MAKING my car lose grip in snow or water, all thanks to the symmetric AWD system. I probably could have afforded the 300HP STi, but honestly I didn't think I was skilled enough to handle that power. Plus, icky mpg.

If you have a LOT of resources, AWD, traction and power control, and effectively a drive-by-wire system can do...interesting things to handling.