Role of archers in low-tech parties?

[weby]

Also as the rules are written archers are also good at penetrating armor with their blodkin point arrows.

In a recent session my archer with movement speed 7, fair hiding skills and LOT of arrows, harassed a large group of armored enemies by firing from cover and forcing them to send out patrols to hunt her that she again ambushed alone and ran away.

Her arrows could reliably punch through armor most of the time due to the (2) pen, causing a lot of wounds, though very few serious ones.

But overall the enemies armor main effect seemed to be to slow them down due to weight..

[The Wrathchild]

The role of the archer is to shoot at the opposition before it closes to melee range. After that the archer goes into melee just like the others. Sometimes he might be able to swing keeping his distance and firing every 2-4 turns or so, depending on him having Fast-Draw or not. Fast-Draw does make a difference here, in those 100-150 pointers. One of the main challenges is the fact the Ready-ing that archers do a lot allows "only" Stepping - thus, if the archer needs distance he has to spend even more time getting that distance.

But attacking at a distance IS an advantage. You can reach just about everyone on the field, and in spread-out affairs, the archer can easily end up dominating while the tanks stomp around forever.

As in all things GURPS the value of points spent depend on the game providing the conditions under which those points come into play.

In tight places, with opponents coming from all directions, the archer will be sad.

In open, free-range battles he is much happier.

In bottlenecks where he can be elevated, and safe behind frontline fighters - he's estatic. Especially if the opponents have no missile users of their own ;-)

edit: Sniping is of course also an opportunity.

Setting is all - and the role varies with the setting.

Ah, Ninja'd - several times ;-)

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Still, bows aren't terrible - you ought to be able to get off 3 shots or so before they close if you start at clear recognition ranges, and 1 arrow hit does stand a decent chance of crippling something, or causing a major wound. I'd expect your group of 5 pure archers to take out 2 or 3 of the charging melee specialists before the remaining 2 or 3 cut them to bits, and the chance of them actually winning isn't negligible. Probably not great, but not negligible.

Also, since (IIRC) it's a fantasy genre campaign, the party's dedicated archer can pimp his bow with useful Enchantments, and use Enchanted arrows too.


I'd guess Penetrating Weapon from GURPS Magic is particularly attractive on the bow, and then since armour penetration is pretty much assured, the +2 damage Icy Weapon or Flaming Weapon on the arrows (which takes effect only if the unmodified damage penetrates the armour, but that's what Penetrating Armour is for).

Imbuements might be an alternative to Enchantments, costing CPs instead of gold, and being equally reliant on the world builder's (usually that would be the GM) decision, but AFAIK roughly similar results can be achieved with Imbuements.

[Collective_Restraint]

Still, with a high enough skill in Bow and Fast Draw (Arrow), you can shoot arrows once every two seconds. While it's still not enough to compete with Melee, the fact you can hit opponents that are trying to stay behind cover for support roles (healers, spellcasters or other archers) makes it pretty useful. Arrows can't normally be parried which is normally the highest defense option available to warriors and on top of that, the target can't retreat for an extra defense bonus (unless they want to dodge and drop). Bodkin arrows to damage highly armored opponents and impaling damage makes it very appealing too.

[SuedodeuS]

Although archery, particularly in Low Tech levels, is essentially a lifetime investment, archers are quite rarely just archers. They are likely to have their non-war skills more advanced than the dedicated melee warriors, making them useful in non-combat situations. Notably, really good archers are likely to have keen eyesight, and decent sneaking skills are hardly inappropriate. Thus, archer characters can make for good scouts, trackers, and hunters, although in situations where they need to find hidden foes they are likely to be better served using a melee weapon (a good environment for hiding means close quarters combat is likely, and if they spot an enemy and have time to line up a shot, that probably means the enemy doesn't know they've been spotted and the archer similarly has time to Ready the bow first). In a setting where "adventurers" are common, an archer is also likely to make it a point to know a good deal about tactics. And, of course, archers might have some sort of "day job," the skills of which could transfer to the adventurers in unforeseen ways.

For combat, ambush from height is, of course, ideal. Failing that, a nice plain (preferably with hills to slow the enemy advance) can mean the archer drops a few of the enemies by the time they get into melee with the rest of the party, greatly skewing things in your favor. If you yourself are ambushed, archers in your party will likely be able to respond before the rest - an ambush generally means the enemy engages from a hard-to-reach location, so the ability to reach out and touch someone from range is a great boon to the victims. In potential CQB situations, like exploring a dungeon or engaging in some urban warfare, an archer may be better served leaving his or her bow behind and using a backup melee weapon (shortswords work nicely for this) and maybe a light shield (for the DB). Alternatively, he or she can simply make certain his/her melee weapon is easily within reach for drawing it. If he/she is ever engaged from too close of a distance, dropping the arrow and quickly drawing the sword (keep hold of the bow, you don't want to lose/break it) can work. Indeed, it might be a legitimate option to keep one's hand on the sword hilt at all times, carrying the bow in the off-hand (as that's how you hold it anyway). This gives a sizable (+4 IIRC) bonus to Fast-Draw for the sword, and really only burns a couple of seconds to draw and nock an arrow (as compared to carrying the bow in a Ready state) in case one does get into a situation that calls for some archery.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

In a small group (Say, 3-6 on a side), the normal archer is very much a support person. He's good for opening ambushes, putting some fire into important targets as ranges close, and (Quite importantly) limiting the opponent's tactical options by giving a threat that can hit them almost anywhere they go. The important thing is to control the fight. An archer that can help do that, even if they do very little damage, has contributed hugely to his side... Though as mentioned, they better pack a good weapon for when someone gets in close.

This plays out in real-life battles, too. Agincourt saw one of the greatest victories of the longbow, yet they killed rather few of the enemy compared to the men-at-arms.

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Molokh

However, what about the games with normal point ranges (100-150 or below)? What are the roles of archers in those parties, especially given that learning Bow is a lifetime investment?

Thanks in advance!

I haven't played a dedicated archer in that game, but my melee characters invariably end up putting a few points (~4) into Crossbow and always have some bodkin bolts handy.

Lopping off extremities never gets old, but putting a bolt into someone's vitals is a nasty, nasty way to start out an ambush. A 2d+3 (2) pi hit to the vitals tends to change an NPC's immediate goal to 'run away, er, stagger away!'

[Phoenix42]

Since you mention Agincourt:

One might also want to mention that fantasy and low-TL campaigns tend to include horses or similar mounts. This comes in two versions: A mounted archer can laugh his enemy in the face because he can use his crossbow or shortbow and can dictate his range; if he's any good and the fight is in an open field, he can also circle his enemies and shoot from behind, negating his enemies' dodge rolls. Don't forget that this is essentially what took the Mongols all the way from Mongolia to Austria and what brought the Huns from the Black Sea to the South of France. If your enemy is on foot or only has heavy cavalry, you can massacre them with relative ease. Of course, if you're in a dnd style fantasy world that, strangely, seems to consist only of dungeons, you're screwed. But that's life :)

The other point being (and this is where Agincourt, Crecy and other English victories over the French in the 100 Years' War come in) that while archery is only mediocre against an armoured enemy (let's not kid ourselves, trying to fire through full plate armour, which usually includes padded and chain armour underneath, is asking quite a bit [DR 8-10], even with your best longbow), remember that those guys are often on horseback, and the horse is not as well armoured. Shoot the horse in a sensitive spot, and it will probably buck, and then you've got either a distracted rider or a guy with 60 lbs of armour who just fell off his horse; both isn't really going to present much of a threat for the moment.

That's one of the historical reasons for the victories won by the longbow. Arrows dont' usually kill outright, unless you happen to be a surfing show-off elf whose name shall not be mentioned, but they can really slow your enemies down. That being said, it takes a lot of balls to shoot a charging destrier in a straight shot; the English archers were firing volleys and didn't have to aim, plus they could knew that if the riders did make it, they'd be protected. Advantages most adventurers don't have, as was mentioned before.


I would say that shooting a longbow from out of a tree, at best, is a roll against the worse of your climbing and bow skill. At worst, the GM could completely forbid it, because a longbow should really be fired while standing, and if you're standing in a tree, not holding onto anything, and aiming a longbow... Well, asking for it seems too harmless a term, really.
A short- or crossbow is an entirely different matter, of course.

So, bottom line: If you're the player, try to get a horse (and make sure your GM isn't a dungeon fetishist), and shoot everybody else's (invest a few $ in barbed arrows). If you're a gm looking to make your world more archer-friendly, put more enemies on horseback and have more enemies wearing less or no armour. Also, of course, having npcs on horseback makes for lots of extra fun when it does come to melee :)

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by Phoenix42

(invest a few $ in barbed arrows).

actually default 2$ war arrow is barbed arrow.

[martinl]

Historically, cheap(ish) good armor and shields made archers valuable auxiliaries rather than a primary military arm. (Most of TLs 2 and 3.)

GURPS is actually pretty forgiving here - I'd estimate GURPS archers do better against metal armor and med+ shields than historical archers did. Now I'm curious about a GURPS open field battle between 100+ reasonable heavy inf and reasonable archers...

However, that is the military viewpoint. From the viewpoint of typical RPG "parties" (a mix of commando, bravo, and bandit), the archer is for ambushes, for having a response to inaccessible enemy missile fire, and attrition of known enemies who start out far away.