Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels

Black Rose · 09-27-2009, 11:37 PM

What would you say is a reasonable assumed level of education for, as the title says, High School and College skill levels, both halfway through a Bachelor's as well as graduated with a BA or BS from a quality university?

I'm trying to parse these out for a setting, and while it seems like at the High School level, Defaults would be better from a realism standpoint, it kills any gradiation. "Hey, how good are you?" Well, I've got a 9 IQ and a default in an IQ/H skill, and so does everyone else in my class."

Kinda dull.

So assume both a Cultist viewpoint as well as a moderately cinematic viewpoint? What do you think?

Crakkerjakk · 09-27-2009, 11:42 PM

Skill 11-12 for a recent graduate of a unremarkable (in either way) university. Let high school students mostly operate off defaults, with a few points here and there in the areas they're especially interested in (even if that's Carousing).

As for mid-way levels, call it 10-11?

Pragmatic · 09-27-2009, 11:56 PM

Note that one of the criteria is that, as people raise in education, their IQ increases as well. At least, in the Templates I've seen. (Probably a "chicken-and-egg" thing. If someone doesn't have an IQ of X, they probably wouldn't have gotten a degree of level Y.)

Ulzgoroth · 09-28-2009, 01:21 AM

If you have problems with the too-steep differentiation of 'you have a point or you don't' for a class-full of high school students, use Dabbler perks. A half or quarter point can make a big difference between somebody pulling off a passable grade in a class and someone not even taking it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Note that one of the criteria is that, as people raise in education, their IQ increases as well. At least, in the Templates I've seen. (Probably a "chicken-and-egg" thing. If someone doesn't have an IQ of X, they probably wouldn't have gotten a degree of level Y.)

That's not too surprising for templates, because a template that really uses a college education is likely going to be of the know-it-all type. Adventuring nerds usually lean to the omnidisciplinary.

A highly skilled chemical engineer would certainly have a college degree, but might only have a couple highly developed IQ skills and an average IQ. It's just that that character is less likely to turn up as a PC than someone who can also handle three other kinds of engineering, repair a car, and program a computer.

Education can justify an elevated IQ, but neither mandates the other.

Black Rose · 09-28-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

If you have problems with the too-steep differentiation of 'you have a point or you don't' for a class-full of high school students, use Dabbler perks. A half or quarter point can make a big difference between somebody pulling off a passable grade in a class and someone not even taking it.

I should probably mention that the effect of the Dabbler perk is pretty much an assumed setting rule. I really like the smoother gradiation from Default to Def+1, Def+2, Def+3 and finally 1-pt that it offers. Not to mention it allows someone who's had a few months' worth of classes in a subject to have that matter.

trans · 09-28-2009, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

If you have problems with the too-steep differentiation of 'you have a point or you don't' for a class-full of high school students, use Dabbler perks.

Having recently bought the 4e Basic Set, I would really like to know where the Dabbler perk is described?

Ulzgoroth · 09-28-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trans

Having recently bought the 4e Basic Set, I would really like to know where the Dabbler perk is described?

Power-Ups 2: Perks, an e23 PDF that compiles most (or all?) of the GURPS 4e perks that predate it and a number of new ones. I think Dabbler was one of the new ones.

Fred Brackin · 09-28-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Rose

What would you say is a reasonable assumed level of education for, as the title says, High School and College skill levels, both halfway through a Bachelor's as well as graduated with a BA or BS from a quality university?

High School students are very unlikely to have any Science or Professional Skills. Many of their teachers will be no better than 12 in the subject they are teaching.

Exceptions might be made for the absolutely brightest kid in school who's gotten an early start on his Ph.D.

High School kids may have other Skills though. Athletic/other Physical and Hobby Skills are most likely. Probably not Driving. Even amjor jocks though are unlikely to have more than a pt of 2 in even Physical Skills.

If a college student graduates ready to take an entry level job in his degree filed then that translates to a skill of 12 or higher. That's pretty much by definition. Extrapolate from there.

If all this seems dull.....well, Gurps primarily concentrates on measuring the Skills of Adventurers and most High School and College students will have few if any Skills useful to Adventurers.

Mgellis · 09-28-2009, 09:15 AM

My feeling has always been that the education system in GURPS (200 hours = 25 days of work = 1 character point) is simply a useful and plausible abstraction that does not reflect the range of real world learning, which involves far too many variables to model in any playable way.

Besides, in character design, it doesn't matter if they learned the skill in a year or a week; it only matters that they have (or do not have) the skill when they enter the story.

So I just rely on skill levels and I don't worry exactly when or how the character learned them.

12- = competent professional; if this is a skill where you can make a living, you can keep a job with this level of skill.

So what does a college degree mean in GURPS? (This could be a two-year degree for some skills, by the way.) The average graduate will have one skill, possibly two, representing their major, at 12- or 11-. 12- means someone really knows their stuff, can hit the ground running or only needs minimal training, and can do the job pretty much from day one. 11- is for the guy who passed with a C+ average and knows his stuff well enough to get hired, but better learn the rest of what he needs on the job real fast or he is going to get fired eventually...or maybe arrested if he screws up badly enough. A few whiz kids, who are probably going to graduate school anyway, might have one or two skills at 13-. They will have a few other skills, representing important secondary areas of study or activity (this may include Carousing), at 11- or 10-. A typical B.A. or B.S. probably represents about 10-20 points of skills.

A high school student? Hmmm...with a few exceptions, I would assume high school students a) use most skills at default (IQ-5, etc.), b) have ONE point in a couple of skills (the subjects they are really into, hobbies or activities they spend a lot of time on), or the Dabbler perk, and c) might, if they are unusually strong in certain areas (for a high school student), have higher levels in one or two skills.

Dabbler is a great addition for low-powered games; it seems a good way to handle high school kids who are "whiz kids," local stars, perhaps, well above their peers (+2 or +3 over default in a couple of select skills), but not truly skilled in the way that GURPS means it.

Mark

Dwarf99 · 09-28-2009, 11:17 AM

Well I read somewhere that a typical college semester would be like 1 point in a skill (some have even suggested that it should be Intensive and that it should suffer from Maintaining Skills) I'd put a high school year as a point in all the subjects studied but that you don't have to maintain. Some older folks might beg to differ... but I still got all my highschool education.

09-27-2009, 11:37 PM	#1
Black Rose Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hong Kong	Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels What would you say is a reasonable assumed level of education for, as the title says, High School and College skill levels, both halfway through a Bachelor's as well as graduated with a BA or BS from a quality university? I'm trying to parse these out for a setting, and while it seems like at the High School level, Defaults would be better from a realism standpoint, it kills any gradiation. "Hey, how good are you?" Well, I've got a 9 IQ and a default in an IQ/H skill, and so does everyone else in my class." Kinda dull. So assume both a Cultist viewpoint as well as a moderately cinematic viewpoint? What do you think? __________________ The unique and supreme delight lies in the certainty of doing evil, and men and women know from birth that all pleasure lies in evil. - Beaudelaire

09-27-2009, 11:42 PM	#2
Crakkerjakk "Gimme 18 minutes . . ." Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM	Re: Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels Skill 11-12 for a recent graduate of a unremarkable (in either way) university. Let high school students mostly operate off defaults, with a few points here and there in the areas they're especially interested in (even if that's Carousing). As for mid-way levels, call it 10-11? __________________ My bare bones web page Semper Fi

09-27-2009, 11:56 PM	#3
Pragmatic Ceci n'est pas une tag. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)	Re: Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels Note that one of the criteria is that, as people raise in education, their IQ increases as well. At least, in the Templates I've seen. (Probably a "chicken-and-egg" thing. If someone doesn't have an IQ of X, they probably wouldn't have gotten a degree of level Y.)

09-28-2009, 09:15 AM	#9
Mgellis Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Flushing, Michigan	Re: Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels My feeling has always been that the education system in GURPS (200 hours = 25 days of work = 1 character point) is simply a useful and plausible abstraction that does not reflect the range of real world learning, which involves far too many variables to model in any playable way. Besides, in character design, it doesn't matter if they learned the skill in a year or a week; it only matters that they have (or do not have) the skill when they enter the story. So I just rely on skill levels and I don't worry exactly when or how the character learned them. 12- = competent professional; if this is a skill where you can make a living, you can keep a job with this level of skill. So what does a college degree mean in GURPS? (This could be a two-year degree for some skills, by the way.) The average graduate will have one skill, possibly two, representing their major, at 12- or 11-. 12- means someone really knows their stuff, can hit the ground running or only needs minimal training, and can do the job pretty much from day one. 11- is for the guy who passed with a C+ average and knows his stuff well enough to get hired, but better learn the rest of what he needs on the job real fast or he is going to get fired eventually...or maybe arrested if he screws up badly enough. A few whiz kids, who are probably going to graduate school anyway, might have one or two skills at 13-. They will have a few other skills, representing important secondary areas of study or activity (this may include Carousing), at 11- or 10-. A typical B.A. or B.S. probably represents about 10-20 points of skills. A high school student? Hmmm...with a few exceptions, I would assume high school students a) use most skills at default (IQ-5, etc.), b) have ONE point in a couple of skills (the subjects they are really into, hobbies or activities they spend a lot of time on), or the Dabbler perk, and c) might, if they are unusually strong in certain areas (for a high school student), have higher levels in one or two skills. Dabbler is a great addition for low-powered games; it seems a good way to handle high school kids who are "whiz kids," local stars, perhaps, well above their peers (+2 or +3 over default in a couple of select skills), but not truly skilled in the way that GURPS means it. Mark

09-28-2009, 11:17 AM	#10
Dwarf99 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas	Re: Assumptions on High School and College Skill Levels Well I read somewhere that a typical college semester would be like 1 point in a skill (some have even suggested that it should be Intensive and that it should suffer from Maintaining Skills) I'd put a high school year as a point in all the subjects studied but that you don't have to maintain. Some older folks might beg to differ... but I still got all my highschool education.