GURPS 3e to 4e Conversion

[Panther]

Is anyone else noticing that 3e characters cost a few more points when 'updated' to their 4e 'equivalents'?

For one thing, I really think that the 1/2-point skill idea could be brought into 4e without too much harm to represent that they have basic training enough that they're not alien to the skill without saying they have any real training. This allows more customization, too, by discerning those from people who really have never seen this tool/weapon/application/skill before. They may not be incompetent (next level down; further customization) they just haven't seen it before.

Anyway, this thread is largely intended for thoughts on the conversion process. I'm finding this especially important when updating 3e adventure material, NPC's and, especially, VEHICLES to 4e.

Thank you very much for your insights and consideration.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Panther

Is anyone else noticing that 3e characters cost a few more points when 'updated' to their 4e 'equivalents'?

Usually. Yeah. I'm good with that.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Panther

Is anyone else noticing that 3e characters cost a few more points when 'updated' to their 4e 'equivalents'?

Yes, as a very rough average, it's typically a 50% increase, but it varies widely depending on the specifics of the character.

For one thing, I really think that the 1/2-point skill idea could be brought into 4e without too much harm to represent that they have basic training enough that they're not alien to the skill without saying they have any real training. This allows more customization, too, by discerning those from people who really have never seen this tool/weapon/application/skill before. They may not be incompetent (next level down; further customization) they just haven't seen it before.

I believe that 1/2 point skills were dropped in 4th edition because many people find fractions tedious, but a GM can always house-rule them back in, if desired.

I vaguely remember people using house rules for 3rd edition and earlier that extended the skill tables down to 1/4 and even 1/8 point.

[the_matrix_walker]

Yeah, when I converted my favorite 3rd ed character he went from 155 points to over 300, between half point skills, things that got more expensive, matching certain skill levels, loss of racial template savings on IQ and DX, etc

I'm pretty sure the rationale for dropping half point skills was that if you have to round an advantage thats modifies to cost 12.5 points to 13, it doesn't make much sense to allow fractional points for skills but not for advantages.

[nanoboy]

There are two major factors that increase the cost:

1. DX and IQ cost more at lower levels.
2. 1/2 point skills converted to 1 point.

Oddly, the two are related, since one important way to max-min in 3E was to go with a very high DX and/or IQ and take a bunch of skills at the 1/2 point level.

Some characters are much cheaper, though. High ST characters will decline in value. Characters with various strikers will, too. (Think of the 25-point cost of horns in 3E and compare it to the much cheaper strikers in 4E.)

[SCAR]

You can also find that a rebuild is more point efficient that a direct conversion.

One useful new 4e mechanic to consider is Talents, a couple of levels of a suitable Talent can replace a couple of levels of DX or IQ and save many points.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'm pretty sure the rationale for dropping half point skills was that if you have to round an advantage thats modifies to cost 12.5 points to 13, it doesn't make much sense to allow fractional points for skills but not for advantages.

Putting on my "used to edit GURPS" hat for a second . . . I advocated getting rid of half-points in Fourth Edition because they were a pain to track for many players (and many authors, too), especially once defaulting was taken into account. Far easier just to ditch the fractions.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Putting on my "used to edit GURPS" hat for a second . . . I advocated getting rid of half-points in Fourth Edition because they were a pain to track for many players (and many authors, too), especially once defaulting was taken into account. Far easier just to ditch the fractions.

And I agreed with Andrew not for his reasons, although they were sound, but because I saw rounding modified advantage costs to integer quantities but keeping fractional costs for skills as inconsistent.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Kromm

And I agreed with Andrew not for his reasons, although they were sound, but because I saw rounding modified advantage costs to integer quantities but keeping fractional costs for skills as inconsistent.

Thank you for taking my purely selfish motivation and making it sound like a valid game-design choice. ;-)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kromm

And I agreed with Andrew not for his reasons, although they were sound, but because I saw rounding modified advantage costs to integer quantities but keeping fractional costs for skills as inconsistent.

I didn't mind seeing half-points get tossed, but we used to keep the fractions on modified traits (in 3E) because it seemed more consistent.