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[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Lethal Strike is Karate-2, and attacks on vitals are at -3, totalling -5. So Targeted Attack (Karate Lethal Strike/Vitals) technique defaults to Karate-5. Targeted Attack can buy off up to half (rounding up) of the default penalty, so this technique can be up to Karate-2. See Martial Arts, p. 68.

Targetted attack can buy off half the Hit Location penalty (rounded up). That's totally separate from the Lethal Strike part.
Thus, it begins at -3 from Vitals, -2 from Lethal Strike = -5
Half of 3 is 2, reducing Hit Location to -1, Lethal Strike stays the same, for a total of -3.
If you have access to the Lethal Strike Technique, you can drop this to -1.

That said, I'd agree that a *9 multiplier is beyond the designers' any intention. A quick fix: Let's say wounding multipliers can be converted to wounding factors (WF) in the same fashion as cost factors in DF. Pi on vitals has *3 multiplier, so it has a +2 WF, and Pressure Secrets on vitals also has a +2 WF. Thus, a Lethal Strike on vitals with successful PS will have a +2+2 = +4 WF, or *5 wounding multiplier. This is still huge, but I don't find it totally unreasonable -- a cinematic martial artist who has mastered the esoteric secrets of pressure points (like Kenshiro in Fist of the North Star?) is supposed to be far more powerful than ordinary people plus Karate, I think.

I think it's quite obvious that Pressure Secrets changes your unarmed attack to Impaling damage, thus it does not "stack" in any way, as damage can't be two damage types simultaneously.

[Gurps Fan]

Re: "Impaling" effect of Pressure Secrets

If Pressure Secrets were supposed to convert barehanded attacks from cr to imp, the authors must have described exactly so, instead of writing "In effect, your hands and feet have become impaling weapons". If it were to make your hands "impaling weapons" literally, then you could inflict only half blunt trauma (p. B379), you could inflict only half injury on Homogenous foes (p. B380; and humans can be Homogenous by magic or psi), you could parry a foe's unarmed attack to get a free attack on his limb (p. B376), your foe could attempt to Disarm your hands, and so on. It would be wierder than tripling damage, I think.

As for "stacking damage types", I do understand that one attack can't have two or more damage types and that the effects of imp and pi never "stack". I'm not saying otherwise -- instead, I'm saying from the start Pressure Secrets skill doesn't change damage types but simply increases damage after penetrating DR.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

A non-cinematic person with Karate is still significantly worse off than someone with Pressure Secrets. First, Lethal Strike is a cinematic technique, which means they can never buy off the penalty. Second, Lethal Strike has serious risks of injuring yourself, if your target is wearing any DR at all. Third, with Lethal Strike, you have to target the vitals to get a bonus - Pressure Secrets doubles your injury no matter where you hit.

Yes, I totally agree that a TbaM character with Pressure Secrets is already more powerful overall than Joe Average plus Karate. However, I specifically meant "When (1) a cinematic martial artist who gets a good Pressure Secrets roll and (2) an ordinary person who have learned Karate both successfully throw a Lethal Strike at the target's vitals, (1)'s blow is supposed to be more powerful than (2)'s." It seems to me unlikely that they only inflict the exactly same amount of injury.

Originally Posted by The Benj

Targetted attack can buy off half the Hit Location penalty (rounded up). That's totally separate from the Lethal Strike part.
Thus, it begins at -3 from Vitals, -2 from Lethal Strike = -5
Half of 3 is 2, reducing Hit Location to -1, Lethal Strike stays the same, for a total of -3.
If you have access to the Lethal Strike Technique, you can drop this to -1.

That's not how Targeted Attack actually works; hit location penalties and the underlying technique's default penalty don't apply separately. You first add all the penalties, and then buy off the sum of them up to the half. Check the Targeted Attack box (Martial Arts, p. 68).

[Gurps Fan]

We derailed . . . discussing the effect of Pressure Secrets isn't what this thread is for. Back to the topic:


Autohypnosis skill gives +2 to Will for an hour, with no down-side effects other than requiring Concentration. Doesn't cost FP. Make sure to use this once an hour.

Source: p. B179.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If Pressure Secrets were supposed to convert barehanded attacks from cr to imp, the authors must have described exactly so, instead of writing "In effect, your hands and feet have become impaling weapons".

I fail to see why - GURPS is written with the assumption that the GM has reasonable reading comprehension, and that they don't need everything spelled out for them. And, again, "impaling" is a specific term of art in GURPS. It doesn't just mean "any attack that penetrates the target's flesh". I have a very hard time believing that the authors used "impaling" without meaning impaling. Feel free to PM or e-mail Kromm on this, if you want - I'm willing to bet money that he'll agree with me on this score.

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If it were to make your hands "impaling weapons" literally, then you could inflict only half blunt trauma (p. B379), you could inflict only half injury on Homogenous foes (p. B380; and humans can be Homogenous by magic or psi),

These are all reasonable conclusions, yes. And I would certainly impose them on someone using Pressure Secrets (or Lethal Strike, for that matter!).

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

you could parry a foe's unarmed attack to get a free attack on his limb (p. B376), your foe could attempt to Disarm your hands,

These, on the other hand, are not. A Pressure Secrets roll makes your hands "weapons" only when they're actually doing damage to an opponent. The writeup is quite clear - you make the roll only after successfully striking a foe (i.e, after any parry attempt has already been resolved), and each new attack requires a new roll, so the "weapon" status can't be persistent.

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Yes, I totally agree that a TbaM character with Pressure Secrets is already more powerful overall than Joe Average plus Karate. However, I specifically meant "When (1) a cinematic martial artist who gets a good Pressure Secrets roll and (2) an ordinary person who have learned Karate both successfully throw a Lethal Strike at the target's vitals, (1)'s blow is supposed to be more powerful than (2)'s."

Why? Both are using the same mechanic - hitting the target in a location where "size of the penetrating object" doesn't matter nearly as much as "what vital bits did I hit?". Pressure Secrets guy is stronger than Joe Average because he can buy off the penalty to hit with Pressure Secrets, as opposed to Joe Average, who is always stuck with being less likely to hit with his Lethal Strike than his regular punch.
Basically, the lesson here is that just having Pressure Secrets is insufficient to model a "pressure point master". You're going to need a number of other advantages and skills to really make it work. For starters, a pressure points master probably has enough Karate to get the damage bonus. And someone like Kenshiro would almost certainly have some Striking ST as well, possibly with an "only for pressure point attacks" limitation.

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

That's not how Targeted Attack actually works; hit location penalties and the underlying technique's default penalty don't apply separately.

Where do you see that? That assertion doesn't seem to be supported in the Targeted Attack text at all.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

We derailed . . . discussing the effect of Pressure Secrets isn't what this thread is for. Back to the topic:


Autohypnosis skill gives +2 to Will for an hour, with no down-side effects other than requiring Concentration. Doesn't cost FP. Make sure to use this once an hour.

Source: p. B179.

If you either don't remember to declare a regular use of a skill, or do not want to bother your GM every hour, take a Standard Operating Procedure Perk for that use of that skill.

[vicky_molokh]

People, please keep this thread on-topic.
If you disagree with a statement, type 'Disagree: [url=http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=threadnumber]Link to reasoning behind disagreement[/url].' and be done with it.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Molokh

If you either don't remember to declare a regular use of a skill, or do not want to bother your GM every hour, take a Standard Operating Procedure Perk for that use of that skill.

You're a genius.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Molokh

If you either don't remember to declare a regular use of a skill, or do not want to bother your GM every hour, take a Standard Operating Procedure Perk for that use of that skill.

And (or - if your GM's feeling generous - or) No Nuisance Rolls for it if you have Skill of 16 or more, so it just hums along, always working.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Autohypnosis skill gives +2 to Will for an hour, with no down-side effects other than requiring Concentration. Doesn't cost FP. Make sure to use this once an hour.

Source: p. B179.

More like a Murphy’s Rules entry, isn‘t it? I’m fairly sure that the intent is more limiting than that.

[Ego Archive]

A very strong character can do far more damage with their bare hands then they can do with a Knife, or a Javelin.

P. B270
For a melee weapon, your effective
ST for damage purposes cannot exceed
triple the weapon’s minimum ST. For
instance, a large knife has minimum
ST 6, so its “maximum ST” is 18; if
your ST were 19+, you would compute
your damage as if you had ST 18.
Natural weapons (e.g., a punch or
kick) have neither minimum nor maximum
ST.


Incidently it appears at around ST 60 it is better to punch with your bare hands (7d-2), as opposed to using your mace (6d+1). :D