[Melee] Pick V Axe

[chris1982]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Why is "pick" a stupid name? What other weapon does it make one think of?

Maybe thats just a language issue. For a "Pick" im thinking of tothpick, or lockpick... This weapon is called "Kriegshammer" in German - "Warhammer".

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegshammer

Btw in your Wikipedia article it says: "Its relative heaviness made it unwieldy and, thus, easily avoided. The injury caused by the weapon was also small and rarely immediately fatal."

Doesn't really imply "Impaling damage"

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by chris1982

Maybe thats just a language issue. For a "Pick" im thinking of tothpick, or lockpick... This weapon is called "Kriegshammer" in German - "Warhammer".

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegshammer

Btw in your Wikipedia article it says: "Its relative heaviness made it unwieldy and, thus, easily avoided. The injury caused by the weapon was also small and rarely immediately fatal."

Doesn't really imply "Impaling damage"

Pick brings to mind something spikey to me, like a pickaxe.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why there is an Impaling damage type. Whats the difference between Impaling and Pi++?

[vicky_molokh]

What is this 'minor' change?

[Dave E]

Um, isn't this analysis missing something very simple?

Freeing a stuck Pick requires a Ready action on your next turn according to Campaigns p405. That means the Pick is doing only half its damage every second turn, not full damage.

For example, with ST14 (to make the maths easier) against DR0:

Axe:
Turn 1: Hits for 2d+2 Cutting, average 13.5
Turn 2: Hits for 2d+2 Cutting, average 13.5

Pick:
Turn 1: Hits for 2d+1 Impaling, average 16
Turn 2: Rolls ST to free weapon, does another 8 damage

So, over 2 turns the Axe delivers 27 damage, the Pick 24. OK, so the Pick's second lot of damage occurs inside armour, ignoring DR, which when facing armoured opponents is a plus, but the Axeman could hit 2 opponents in that time.

[chris1982]

Originally Posted by Dave E

Um, isn't this analysis missing something very simple?

Yeah, the fact that hit locations exist... ;-)

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Dave E

Um, isn't this analysis missing something very simple?

Freeing a stuck Pick requires a Ready action on your next turn according to Campaigns p405. That means the Pick is doing only half its damage every second turn, not full damage.
.......

See heres the problem....

If you are correct, and those average damage per turn values should be halved, then Axe wins and a pick does only slightly more damage than a swung short sword or hatchet. Seems a poor trade.

FOr 1D
DR 0 = Axe - 8.3, Pick - 5.6, SSword - 5.3
DR 7 = Axe - 0.3, Pick - 0.0(!), SSword -0

For 2D
DR 0 = Axe - 13.5, Pick - 11.6, SSword - 10.5
DR 7 = Axe - 3.4, Pick - 2.3, SSword -1.5

For 3D
DR 0 = Axe - 18.7, Pick 17.1, SSword 15.7
DR 7 = Axe - 8.3, Pick - 6.8, SSword 5.5

If I am wrong in how i interpreted it earlier, and THIS is the true mechanic, then the questions become

Why would Anyone Carry this weapon versus an Axe?

Why is it that an Axe does better Damage against armor than a Pick?

As this didnt make sense to me when I was orginally running the numbers, I figured I had interpreted the sequence of events on 405 incorrectly.

The way the RAW reads to me, it appears that:

If your opponent attempts to move away from you there is a contest of ST. If he wins you loose your weapon, if you win he cant move, if you tie the weapon comes free.

If he doesnt, you must use your next turn freeing it as a ready manuver.

That seemed straight forward enought till I looked at the somewhat unimpressive damage numbers and the fact that your opponent could, by stepping backwards, afford you an opportunity to free your weapon.

It seems to me that stepping and attacking is symetiric to attacking then stepping.

It seems to me that you stepping away from your opponent and your opponent stepping away from you is also symetric.

If thats true, then Attacking your opponent with a pick then stepping back should afford you the opportunity to break your weapon free via quick contest.

This logic is what lead the generation of numbers and questions in the original post.

The better question may be, Which way is right?

Nymdok

[ADAXL]

The pick has another disadvantage: It is super-specialized anti-armor weapon.

It is good for only one thing (armor penetration). Axes have many other practical applications, such as chopping wood (not just for the campfire, but also to clear brush and build field fortifications). A man with a pick will need a hatchet anyway. This means extra cost and weight to lug around.

Axes with a pick as the backspike can do both, though.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Dave E

Um, isn't this analysis missing something very simple?

Freeing a stuck Pick requires a Ready action on your next turn according to Campaigns p405. That means the Pick is doing only half its damage every second turn, not full damage.

For example, with ST14 (to make the maths easier) against DR0:

Axe:
Turn 1: Hits for 2d+2 Cutting, average 13.5
Turn 2: Hits for 2d+2 Cutting, average 13.5

Pick:
Turn 1: Hits for 2d+1 Impaling, average 16
Turn 2: Rolls ST to free weapon, does another 8 damage

So, over 2 turns the Axe delivers 27 damage, the Pick 24. OK, so the Pick's second lot of damage occurs inside armour, ignoring DR, which when facing armoured opponents is a plus, but the Axeman could hit 2 opponents in that time.

There is also the idea that if the target manages a defense you do no dammage so it is 13.5 dammage per failed defense vs 24.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Molokh

What is this 'minor' change?

Now, now; I said if.

If you want to know anything concrete about the upcoming Cabaret Chicks on Ice, I suggest you ask the authors. I have no authority to release sneak previews and can only drop weaselly hints that slowly drive forumites insane.