Shadowstep and Shadow-walk

[Icelander]

I'm trying to create a pair of abilities. One of them allows the character to step into one shadow and immediately reappear in another shadow that is relatively close. The other allows the user to wrap the shadows around him and enter the Shadowrealm. Geography there corresponds somehow to the surroundings in this world, but distance is strangely compressed. He can cover hundreds of miles in a period of mere hours.

The first ability is clearly Warp, suitably modified. The only thing I'm not sure about is how to model the fact that taking extra time will not provide a bonus. I see this as a somewhat intuitive ability, where the user simple steps into the shadow and out of the next, and taking long time to prepare it would be contrary to the feel of it. I want the default use to be without penalty and to take no time. I could do this with Reliable +50% and some sort of a limitation, but how much of a limitation?

Or should I simply create a modification that alters the parameters for the ability so that basic use is unpenalised? Any thoughts?

On one hand, the combat utility is immensely enhanced by the ability to make unpenalised instant jumps. On the other, the use of the ability as a method of long distance travel is severely penalised by the inability to receive +10 for taking long enough to prepare. This could almost be a feature, but I think that combat utility trumps mundane utility when it comes to pricing. Forum denizens, your views?

The second power, however, I'm not sure about. The game mechanical effect is to allow rapid long distance travel, but the Shadowrealm is inhabited by its own strange lifeforms and there are risks to walking through it. It is by no means a simple teleport and it takes a non-trivial amount of time. Does anyone have any suggestion on what power that could be or how to modify Warp to simulate it?

[Anaraxes]

wrap the shadows around him and enter the Shadowrealm

Alternate Form (Shadowrealm), which includes enhanced Move and Insubstantial? There have to be some past threads on building ghosts and spirits that would provide some ideas.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Alternate Form (Shadowrealm), which includes enhanced Move and Insubstantial? There have to be some past threads on building ghosts and spirits that would provide some ideas.

Interesting.

That might work. Could it be justified as an Alternate Ability of the Warp (or vice versa)? It's really point-inefficient to buy two abilities that are designed for rapid travel and I'd prefer to avoid ******* the player just to cater to my own perverse sense of precision in modelling.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Icelander

On one hand, the combat utility is immensely enhanced by the ability to make unpenalised instant jumps. On the other, the use of the ability as a method of long distance travel is severely penalised by the inability to receive +10 for taking long enough to prepare. This could almost be a feature, but I think that combat utility trumps mundane utility when it comes to pricing. Forum denizens, your views?

I agree that combat utility trumps mundane utility for this. Being able to warp behind an enemy in combat while everyone else has to slug it across the battlefield is a huge deal.

Originally Posted by Icelander

That might work. Could it be justified as an Alternate Ability of the Warp (or vice versa)? It's really point-inefficient to buy two abilities that are designed for rapid travel and I'd prefer to avoid ******* the player just to cater to my own perverse sense of precision in modelling.

Two advantages with overlapping functions and the same power source? Looks like the poster child for Alternative Ability to me.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

I agree that combat utility trumps mundane utility for this. Being able to warp behind an enemy in combat while everyone else has to slug it across the battlefield is a huge deal.

Now it just remains to establish how much more important the combat use of Warp is from the noncombat, non-time-sensitive part of it.

Reliable +10 (+50%) gives the same combat benefit as this ability, but is much more potent out of combat as the character can stack another +10 on top of that by taking extra time. It would therefore seem clear that the value of 'Instant Use Only' is larger than +0% and smaller than +50%.

Opinions?

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

Two advantages with overlapping functions and the same power source? Looks like the poster child for Alternative Ability to me.

Excellent. I'm such a fan of AA that I always worry that I'm extending it to abilities that really shouldn't be allowed to use it. Good to see I'm not entirely insane.

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Reliable +10 (+50%) gives the same combat benefit as this ability, but is much more potent out of combat as the character can stack another +10 on top of that by taking extra time. It would therefore seem clear that the value of 'Instant Use Only' is larger than +0% and smaller than +50%.

You got a ballpark for how limited you want range to be?

I'm rusty on "Limited Enhancements" but you could limit Reliable, so that you only get +1 when you're at -1 or less, +2 when you're at -2 or less... That should give you an intermediate level betweeen +0% and +50%. It's kind of late right now, if this wasn't helpful I'll try to give it a decent tackle tomorrow.

Alternatively, you could just slap "Only to Offset Penalties" on Reliable, and call it half value. For +25% for +10.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Now it just remains to establish how much more important the combat use of Warp is from the noncombat, non-time-sensitive part of it.

Reliable +10 (+50%) gives the same combat benefit as this ability, but is much more potent out of combat as the character can stack another +10 on top of that by taking extra time. It would therefore seem clear that the value of 'Instant Use Only' is larger than +0% and smaller than +50%.

Opinions?

Compare to Blink +25% (from Powers), which is fairly close to what you want. No control and defensive only vs Shadow-to-Shadow may be fairly equal.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

Two advantages with overlapping functions and the same power source? Looks like the poster child for Alternative Ability to me.

I'm with this one.
Buy warp once with the enhancement for reliable and a limit for short range only. Thats already in the book, 10y is -50%
Buy Warp twice as an alternate ability. 2nd version dont buy reliable and stick on maybe extra time, no short range and a limit for hazardous travel or takes awhile to travel, limit would be subjective based on how long you want it to take. But the bonus for buying the 2nd option at the reduced cost should help.

[shadowjack]

Jumper can be used to represent travel to spirit realms or other planes of existence, which sounds to me like what you describe. You've got this other world, which happens to correspond to our own in certain ways—so if you know what you're doing, you can use it as a shortcut. A comparison would be using Jumper to travel to a higher-tech alternate Earth so you can catch a train to your destination, then Jumping back to the low-tech world when you're at the corresponding location.

Combine with, say, Hidden Lore (Shadowrealms) or a new Navigation specialty, to represent the skill needed in negotiating the other world; miss the skill roll, and you wander around lost, or find your way to the wrong destination, or find your way to a place which doesn't correspond with one on our Earth, or have a nasty close encounter with the local lifeforms.

And since this is the Shadowrealms, there are plenty of shadows available to use the Warp with, to cover ground quickly, which helps explain the rapid travel aspect.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by shadowjack

Jumper can be used to represent travel to spirit realms or other planes of existence, which sounds to me like what you describe. You've got this other world, which happens to correspond to our own in certain ways—so if you know what you're doing, you can use it as a shortcut. A comparison would be using Jumper to travel to a higher-tech alternate Earth so you can catch a train to your destination, then Jumping back to the low-tech world when you're at the corresponding location.

Combine with, say, Hidden Lore (Shadowrealms) or a new Navigation specialty, to represent the skill needed in negotiating the other world; miss the skill roll, and you wander around lost, or find your way to the wrong destination, or find your way to a place which doesn't correspond with one on our Earth, or have a nasty close encounter with the local lifeforms.

This I like. Well, apart from the astronomical cost of it, of course, when it's compared to just dropping a few of the limitation on the Warp that the player will already have.

Originally Posted by shadowjack

And since this is the Shadowrealms, there are plenty of shadows available to use the Warp with, to cover ground quickly, which helps explain the rapid travel aspect.

Well, the Warp will probably be limited in how often it can be used. This is meant to represent a divine gift and the god will dower different mortals with the ability to use the power however often suits his purposes.

So I was thinking that the character might be able to Shadowstep X times over Y period, but Shadow-walk Z times in the same period (when Z > X).