The College Experience

[paladin15132]

Ok, I asked this once before and was going to pick back up with that discussion but I searched and could not come up with it. The first question I asked is how many points would one get from undergraduate and graduate college... Now I think that was an error maybe...

I will ask it this way: what rank should a character have in a skill after completing their graduate degree in the skill? How many skills should they get points towards? For example, should a history major have a skill at rank 14 (expert), one at 13, and maybe two at the high end of "ordinary folks) at 11?

[safisher]

Originally Posted by paladin15132

I will ask it this way: what rank should a character have in a skill after completing their graduate degree in the skill? How many skills should they get points towards? For example, should a history major have a skill at rank 14 (expert), one at 13, and maybe two at the high end of "ordinary folks) at 11?

Your major skills are probably skill 11-12. You can make a living on them, supposedly. Your non-major skills probably get a point in them per semester, but suffer from skill degradation -- sorry, that basket weaving class you took ten years ago now gives you a default only. Speaking as someone who teaches college history classes, the GURPS skill default system is very generous. It assumes someone who really took the class serious, with good notes, studied hard, and actually learned something forever -- which is typical of honors and straight A students, who, naturally, probably already had IQ10+ anyway. Even their defaults are better than the IQ9 student who goofed off and made a barely passing grade. Thus, I would not put too much stock in college hours as a way to map skill points to levels. It's mostly social networking, and at best a job requirement.

[Caomhin the Celt]

Originally Posted by paladin15132

Ok, I asked this once before and was going to pick back up with that discussion but I searched and could not come up with it. The first question I asked is how many points would one get from undergraduate and graduate college... Now I think that was an error maybe...

I will ask it this way: what rank should a character have in a skill after completing their graduate degree in the skill? How many skills should they get points towards? For example, should a history major have a skill at rank 14 (expert), one at 13, and maybe two at the high end of "ordinary folks) at 11?

An interesting question.

I graduated university 17 years ago with a BA in Political Science and a minor in English. I have taught history, (world, European and US) since I graduated.

Hopefully, I won't insult any recent grads or current university students, but I think that calling a recent graduate an "expert" (and thus worth 14 points) is just a bit much. Socrates said over 2000 years ago that "..I know one thing, and that is I know nothing." I think the more you learn, the more you realize there's more to learn.

I think a more realistic level would be 12-13, and possibly even 11. This level allows a person to use their skills to make living, (as described on page 172 in the box.) An "expert" (skill 14) would be someone who has either progressed to Masters/PhD level or someone who has used the skill daily for years. (I believe that I know more now after teaching history and political science for 17 years than I ever learned while in college.)

Once a skill reaches 15+, I think these people are leaders in their field; Nobel Prize winners, directors of national research programs, etc.

As for other skill levels due to education, even though modern western liberal education is about a broad spectrum of knowledge, students still specialize. I had to take 2 science courses as part of my BA, and I took Geology and Physics for non-Scientists. (No joke..that was the course name. It used no calculus and we did experiments with little math involved.) I would hesitate to give either of these fields of knowledge that I studied higher than a 9 (if I was statting out myself as a PC.) And this is after a university level of education. The typical non-college educated industrial worker would have even less knowledge of geology or physics as academic subjects, (unless they had a personal hobby-type interest.) Note this does not preclude practical knowledge of the subject. A miner has a working knowledge of geology as it relates to their job, and a mechanic has the same with the physics of an engine. Both of these could be at a skill level from 10-13/14, given that it would applied only to their specific job experience.

Caomhin

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by paladin15132

Ok, I asked this once before and was going to pick back up with that discussion but I searched and could not come up with it.

Was it Here? </helpful>

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by paladin15132

Ok, I asked this once before and was going to pick back up with that discussion but I searched and could not come up with it. The first question I asked is how many points would one get from undergraduate and graduate college... Now I think that was an error maybe...

I will ask it this way: what rank should a character have in a skill after completing their graduate degree in the skill? How many skills should they get points towards? For example, should a history major have a skill at rank 14 (expert), one at 13, and maybe two at the high end of "ordinary folks) at 11?

I think you should go with points, not skill levels. Because say everyone gets a few points to spend on their major as an undergrad. Well, some people are really smart/dedicated and those few points will give them higher skill level than those...less dedicated. Those are the students who are going to get into grad school. And the smartest ones will be the leaders in their field.

I'd probably award a certain number of points per semester, and those points could be used to go towards the courses taken, or used for contacts that might get you a job, or used for social skills that might also get you a job.

So you could have the person you graduated with a C average, didn't learn very much, but used his or her time in college developing a network of contacts and allies who will get that person the Presidency.

[paladin15132]

Great replies, and thanks Shurbbery that is the one. I searched four ways and dug through a few pages of results but came up dry. Your seach foo is greater :)

I see replies about undergraduate, now what about graduate school? Seems to me that people learn allot more there and are more dedicated to actually learning (might be that whole comprehensive final thing haha).

[aesir23]

The default GURPS assumption is that 1 Class for 1 Semester = 200 Hours of training = 1 point.

4 years of College = 8 Semesters, each with 3-5 classes. So that would be up to 40 points(!) divided amongst every subject that you studied!

This seems like WAY too many, but it begins to make sense if you use the Maintaining Skills option. In which case, most of those points are completely lost through lack of use before you graduate. Points in frequently used skills, such as Research, Writing, and your Major(s) and Minor(s) would probably stick around until graduation.

I'd say that a particularly dedicated student at an American Liberal Arts College could leave undergrad with 2 points each in Research, Writing, and 1 or more Minors, 4-8 points in their Major(s), 4-8 points in Carousing, Games, Social Skills, Sports, etc...(after all, there's a lot more to college than school!), and the Dabbler perk (representing a broad base of study in the humanities and sciences.)

[aesir23]

I've not yet been to grad school, but I'd say that Maintaining Skills would be less of a problem, and it'd be no problem to justify 4 or more points per year, but only half of those would go straight into the skill in question (the rest would be divided up into Research, Writing, Teaching, Savoir Faire (Academic), Electronics Operation (Scientific), etc....)

As the simplest of guidelines I'd say that BA=4 points, MA=8 points, and PhD=16 points, but in every case an identical number of points should be spent in supporting skills.

[trooper6]

Just bust out the Time Use Sheet.

Fill it out for each person. This way you can model people who study a lot, and those who only party.

Remember that in addition to your major interest:
All Students are also learning: Research, Writing, Computer Use.
Graduate Students are also learning: Teaching
PhD Students can also be spending points on: Savoir-Faire (Academia), Public Speaking, Academic Contacts, Ally/Patron, Reputation, Administration, etc.

Each school and program and degree and student is a little different. Just do the Time Use Sheet.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by aesir23

The default GURPS assumption is that 1 Class for 1 Semester = 200 Hours of training = 1 point.

4 years of College = 8 Semesters, each with 3-5 classes. So that would be up to 40 points(!) divided amongst every subject that you studied!

I don't think that is right at all.

Say you spend 30hrs a week dealing with school. 15hrs in class, 15 hrs outside of class. You have 30 weeks in a school year (2 semsters, or 3 quarters).

You get 2.25pts a year to spend on your subjects. 2.25pts a year to spend on either your subjects or research or writing...or some other sort of skill you'd pick up if you were being diligent. Or carousing or Hobby: Video Games if you aren't. That certainly isn't 1pt per course.

So at the end of the four years of undergrad you have 7pts in course work, 7pts in some mix of things from course work to research to drinking a lot.

Only half of the points can be spent on your major.

So you are looking at between 7-14pts at the end of Undergrad.
4.5 - 9 for a Masters
And the PhD is a bit different since there doesn't tend to be as much course work and a lot more other skills going on.