Are proliferating perks a danger to GURPS?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Lupo

-WEAPON BOND: in the long run you MIGHT regret taking it, but in most campaigns is a very good deal - too good that MOST fighters will want it. You get +1 to combat skill for just 1 point (saving 3 points) and if you lose your weapon you can acquire a new Weapon Bond (and you're still saving 2 points). The fact that Weapon Bond costs like an extra level of skill with a -80% limitation is a moot point - you cannot add limitations to skill levels!
Suggested cost: 2 points

Weapon Bond is useless if you get disarmed. Weapon Bond is useless if you're the kind of character who wields a wide variety of weapons, or whatever he gets his hands on (a staple of the cinematic badass). Weapon Bond is useless when you are stripped of your weapons (say, you get sent to prison) and you have to grab the nearest thing once you escape. Weapon bond is useless if your weapon breaks (and GURPS has rules on weapon breakage, so it's not like it's something that doesn't happen).

Finally, Weapon Bond encourages people to form last relationships with one piece of hardware, rather than ditching what they have as soon as something better comes along. It allows me to have "my ancestral sword" and not feel like a chump.

Alot of your "This perk is overpowered" assumes worst case scenarios, rather than what actually tends to happen in a real game, IMO

EDIT: Further consider, what would you price a technique for "This one weapon only?" It would have to be average and it would have to cost 1 point per level.

I think you mainly have a skewed sense of what's balance, since a 5 points tends to give you a very broad +1, 4 points gives you a slightly less broad (skills, and often not really a good buy unless you want to be a specialist), and 1 point per +1 under highly limited circumstances is fine. You're just seeing players who maximize that highly limited circumstances ("My nightvision character prefers to fight at night"), but that's just good gameplay, not a problem. It doesn't mean it's not pathetically easy to strip a player of the advantages associated with Weapon Bond or Nightvision.

[Mailanka]

- STRONGBOW: that's +2 to Striking Strenght for a single weapon skill, with the "fake" drawback it requires you to have the weapon skill at DX+2. The drawback is fake because every PC who bothers to buy this, will have a good weapon skill.
Suggested cost: 3 points

Another good example. You argue that nobody buys their skills at DX+1 or less. However, you disregard the plethora of players who buy DX to high values (say, 15 or 18 or so) and then buy a wide variety of skills, or even a Wild Card skill. The sorts of characters you're talking about are specialists, and DX+2 is only really a good buy for someone who wants high levels of Archery and nothing else. For those of us who want Acrobatics and swordsmanship and some melee skills and Stealth and some high levels of DX skills wouldn't buy them all at DX+2. They'd buy high DX.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Another good example. You argue that nobody buys their skills at DX+1 or less. However, you disregard the plethora of players who buy DX to high values (say, 15 or 18 or so) and then buy a wide variety of skills, or even a Wild Card skill. The sorts of characters you're talking about are specialists, and DX+2 is only really a good buy for someone who wants high levels of Archery and nothing else. For those of us who want Acrobatics and swordsmanship and some melee skills and Stealth and some high levels of DX skills wouldn't buy them all at DX+2. They'd buy high DX.

Basically, Strongbow is almost the same thing as 'Enjoys Karate-like damage bonuses', only weaker. The bothersome thing is that it stacks with Weapon Master, but even so, a +1 damage at that point isn't much, given how much goodness mêlée WMs enjoy.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Molokh

mêlée

You're crazy, man. Do you have some kinda uber keyboard, or did you alt-coded all of that yourself? Or do you maybe have it loaded in Ctrl-V for just such occassions? Whatever your secret is, man, you have my respect.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Phaelen Bleux

Well, I can't argue with the math. My initial hesitation in using Perks was more of a min-maxing vs. rounded character design notion. I feel that too many Perks on a character sheet steals from more creative (and by that I mean storytelling, not ingenious ways to not get dead) character building to making the character just a bunch of "one-ups."

For me if becomes a way to add to creative character building. I'm currently in Wrathchild's Arena game. Cinematic Skills are limited to those with Weapon Master/Trained by a Master...and only if those skills are in a Style you are familiar with. I have a fencer. I've designed him as a calm, cool, collected noble simmering with rage underneath. I imagined him with the commanding presence of a knight...that he basically is a knight/samurai type...but from Araterre where knights are of the swashbucklery sort. And all those other styles include Kiai, but his doesn't. But I think his character concept means that he should have it. Unusual Training (and GM approval) will allow me to realize my character vision. There are some other things I'm going to want as well to round out the character...and make him effective in the arena vs. ST20 behemoths with staves.

But this isn't about one-ups. This is about crafting a character that fits a vision.

I think Perks are awesome. And using them with the recommended limitations...I see no overpowered problems at all. And some Perks are cinematic and not useful in Realistic games. But playing with Wrathchild I'm really excited about running a quasi-cinematic game....where most people won't have access to cinematic powers...without the Weapon Master/Trained by a Master/Unusual Training Perk...sort of a low-powered cinematics. And Perks will help me craft that while keeping the available styles limited to genre appropriate ones.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

You're crazy, man. Do you have some kinda uber keyboard, or did you alt-coded all of that yourself? Or do you maybe have it loaded in Ctrl-V for just such occassions? Whatever your secret is, man, you have my respect.

I'm using a standard physical keyboard (though I recently found that A-shaped KBs are great), but my keyboard dæmon has Compose Keys enabled (I'm using USA International Keyboard with deadkeys layout). I suppose Windows has something like that too.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

Note: I Think GURPS Psionic Powers looks really cool, but mixing Skill with Power Ability looks dangerous. Techniques for Enhancements....

There are no new mechanics in Psionic Powers. That's the defaulting and temporary enhancement rules right from GURPS powers, being used.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Molokh

I'm using a standard physical keyboard (though I recently found that A-shaped KBs are great), but my keyboard dæmon has Compose Keys enabled (I'm using USA International Keyboard with deadkeys layout). I suppose Windows has something like that too.

I would think a US physical keyboard layout would be inconvenient. Isn't Ukranian written in a Cyrillic alphabet? I know some languages abandoned it for Latin scripts in the 1990s, but surely its use is older in Ukranian than in Russian.

Edit - And yes, recent versions of Windows have a feature to convert your US keyboard to a US International keyboard on the Control Panel under Language and Region or Clock Language and Region depending on which version. It's thru Languages and Details in ME and XP, Text Services and Input Languages in Vista.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I would think a US physical keyboard layout would be inconvenient. Isn't Ukranian written in a Cyrillic alphabet? I know some languages abandoned it for Latin scripts in the 1990s, but surely its use is older in Ukranian than in Russian.

Why should it matter? The number and physical positions of the keys are the same. Only the assigned characters differ.

Now, I remember a Japanese kb I used when I tried learning the language. It had a few extra keys, and they did matter.

And just in case this is what you're asking: converting a Russian kb into a Ukrainian one is easy. Replace ë with an apostroph (though for some reasons this is rarely done), the hard sign with ï, swap two letters in places (replace one of them with 'i'), and reassing Э то Є (no kidding about the last one).

Originally Posted by malloyd

Edit - And yes, recent versions of Windows have a feature to convert your US keyboard to a US International keyboard on the Control Panel under Language and Region or Clock Language and Region depending on which version. It's thru Languages and Details in ME and XP, Text Services and Input Languages in Vista.

I'm actually pretty puzzled why US-Int(w/deadkeys) isn't the default layout for English-speaking countries. It support pretty much everything you could ever need on a latin keyboard.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Lupo

-WEAPON BOND: in the long run you MIGHT regret taking it, but in most campaigns is a very good deal - too good that MOST fighters will want it. You get +1 to combat skill for just 1 point (saving 3 points) and if you lose your weapon you can acquire a new Weapon Bond (and you're still saving 2 points). The fact that Weapon Bond costs like an extra level of skill with a -80% limitation is a moot point - you cannot add limitations to skill levels!

The point of Weapon Bond is more to better allow a certain type of character concept, and there are several with which it simply won't match (my Ark Nekris character, for example, is essentially the poster child for Weapon Bond not working). If you think of it as the Signature Gear advantage, with the limitations that you still have to pay for most of the price and it isn't plot-protected, 1 point to get Balanced (+1 to skill) on a weapon doesn't seem underpriced at all. Indeed, one could argue that it's overpriced in this regard - except that Weapon Bond and Balanced stack.

Originally Posted by Lupo

-ARMOR FAMILIARITY: that's basically +1 to a weapon skill AND a further +1 for parrying purposes (since +2 to attack equals +1 to parry). If you choose that perk, you will ALWAYS benefit from it because you will wear armor and always be encumbered. "Only when armored" is NOT a significant limitation for "+1 to combat skill"... every sane GM will agree on that.
Note that Enhanced Parry costs 5 points, and Armor Familiarity gives you +1 to attacks *in addition* to EP benefits!

I'm honestly not that fond of the name of this Perk. The way I look at it, it's more useful for letting you fight in situations where you can't drop your gear to fight. Also bear in mind that being encumbered beyond light drops your movement rate and Dodge. Finally, if you consistently fight encumbered, you're going to burn through FP more rapidly, which means fewer Heroic Charges, Flurry of Blows, etc. that fencing types can greatly benefit from.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- EXOTIC WEAPON TRAINING: this is a +1 to combat skill, always. It should simply be removed, or possibly it should cost 3 points. Even then, ALL fighters who use "exotic" weapons will choose it.

As mentioned, EWT is just to offset what is arguably an overbalanced penalty to begin with. And, yes, every fighter who consistently uses an "exotic" weapon will be fully proficient in its use. That doesn't strike me as odd in the least.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- FORM MASTERY: this perk basically allows you to get a +2 to parry when fighting with a Spear. It's like a limited, but more powerful, Enhanced Parry.

Actually, it's a +1 to Parry. Unless you've spent points raising your Staff above default, that is. So it's a somewhat-limited form of Enhanced Parry. Possibly still overpriced in the case of Spear-to-Staff, however.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- GRIP MASTERY: this perk basically grant you a +1 to parry (because you can "freely" assume a Defensive Grip and then relinquish it to attack).

As mentioned, it's a +1 to parry half the time. The sequence of events would go - Attack, then Defensive Grip. Normal grip, then Attack. Attack, then Defensive Grip. And so on. You can only make a grip change once per turn.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- SHIELD WALL TRAINING: this perk is SO overpowered... it gives a +2 to combat skill (which is normally worth 8 points) for just 1 point, and has extra benefits!
Without it, no warrior will ever choose a Large shield. If it's allowed, no warrior will ever choose a shield other than a Large one. Suggested cost: 7 points; OR split it into two perks, "Sacrificial Block" for 1 point and "Large Shield training" for 6 points.

People who routinely use a heavy shield in combat are going to train to be able to do so effectively. I don't honestly think it's that overpriced.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- SPECIAL SETUP (and RULES EXEMPTION, EXTRA OPTION and other similar perks): those perks are very easily abusable. They should cost more (2-5 points) and/or be strictly controlled by the GM.

I most certainly agree with strict control, but with that in mind it shouldn't really cost more. GM control should avoid most abuse, and that's really the only problem with these perks.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- STRONGBOW: that's +2 to Striking Strenght for a single weapon skill, with the "fake" drawback it requires you to have the weapon skill at DX+2. The drawback is fake because every PC who bothers to buy this, will have a good weapon skill.

Ranged weapons, like the bow, have built-in limitations that makes that +2 to striking strength much less useful than it would be with a melee weapon. As for all dedicated archers having the Perk - yeah, that's a given. A lot of Perks are of the "all dedicated [blah] will have this Perk." It's part of what defines the archetype.

Originally Posted by Lupo

-STYLE FAMILIARITY: this perk grants significant benefits; notably a +1 to defenses against co-stylists (every time the enemy tries a deceptive/feint, that is, ALWAYS if he want to have a chance to hit a powerful PC). If the campaign does not feature DOZENS of styles, but just 4 or 5 styles, this perk is even more powerful.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Your enemies are going to have the same advantages against you, unless you've invested more points in another style... which your enemies can do as well.

Originally Posted by Lupo

- OFF-HAND WEAPON TRAINING: this perk makes Ambidexterity useless (unless your character makes a point of using different weapons and skills every time...). Moreover, in real life training to use your off-hand is difficult and time-consuming.

Alternatively, charging more for it would likely make it useless. "Sure, I can spend 3 points to be able to use a Broadsword equally well with both hands... but just 2 more points and I can do everything equally well with both hands!"

Originally Posted by Lupo

-SPECIAL EXERCISES: in some cases this perk is finely priced. For Damage Resistance, it's BADLY underpriced - because DR is outrageously cheap in low-tech and martial arts campaigns. Thus, if you really want to allow DR at the listed cost, Special Exercises for it should cost more - probably 3 or 4 points.

Again, a function of DR's pricing, not the Perk. Also, each level only lets you buy one bit of DR - and I think it mentions some limits to how much you should be able to buy.


I only commented on the Perks I'm familiar with, here. Stuff like Magical Weapon Bond and Perfume I've never seen (I suspect they're in Perks), and the others I'm just not that familiar with.