Cthulhu in GURPS 4e

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

...1) Power level: I'm leaning toward 100 point characters, on the theory that will give a sort of classic CoC feel - exceptional, but not larger-than-life heroes. I also plan to uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and charge the full 20 points per level for IQ. Which means characters will tend to cost a little more than by RAW, so 100 points might be more restrictive than I think. Any thoughts?

My feeling would be that would cripple the 'brainier' characters in terms of survivability, but YMMV.

2) I haven't played a game with Mythos/Sanity-Blasting Fright Checks yet, but the rules seem a little harsh. Won't characters often wind up stunned and helpless as The Bad Thing comes to eat them? (I guess that's sort of the point, but still...)

It's not RAW, obviously, but you could let them choose a higher number result on the Table if they would prefer due to situational imperatives.

[GodlessRose]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Personally I find Mythos fright checks to be silly. Ordinary fright checks with sufficient modifiers are perfectly adequate to represent the mythos.

I was wondering why they felt the funky rolls were necessary. But they must have considered using standard fright checks. I'd be interested to know why they found them inadequate.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

My feeling would be that would cripple the 'brainier' characters in terms of survivability, but YMMV.

Do you mean the added cost for Will and Per would subject them to more sanity loss and surprise attacks? Possibly. But I tend to run low-action games where mental skills are vital. And I like to pit the muscle against monsters who are resistant to the more common weapons, so their brawn doesn't always help.

Now that I think of it, in BRP CoC, Intelligence can be a liability, since it makes characters more prone to insanity.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

It's not RAW, obviously, but you could let them choose a higher number result on the Table if they would prefer due to situational imperatives.

I like that idea. It should give the players more control, without de-fanging Fright Checks.

In BRP, when a character loses it, I like to ask the player how he thinks the character would react, and take that into account. It only seems fair to give the player some input on the nature of his madness-and-horrible-death.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

Do you mean the added cost for Will and Per would subject them to more sanity loss and surprise attacks? Possibly. But I tend to run low-action games where mental skills are vital. And I like to pit the muscle against monsters who are resistant to the more common weapons, so their brawn doesn't always help.

Actually, I hadn't thought of the sanity loss angle. I was thinking that the relative increase in the cost to be smart would leave 100 point 'brainy' characters with few points for even a modicum of physical robustness.

I like that idea. It should give the players more control, without de-fanging Fright Checks.

In BRP, when a character loses it, I like to ask the player how he thinks the character would react, and take that into account. It only seems fair to give the player some input on the nature of his madness-and-horrible-death.

Oh yes, that's nice and diabolical! :-)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

Do you mean the added cost for Will and Per would subject them to more sanity loss and surprise attacks? Possibly. But I tend to run low-action games where mental skills are vital. And I like to pit the muscle against monsters who are resistant to the more common weapons, so their brawn doesn't always help.

If you uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and give them a base value of 10, then you really would do better to have IQ cost 10/level. Otherwise, if I wanted to build a character with IQ 15, Per 15, and Will 15, I would have to pay 150 points instead of 100, which is a really big surcharge. And you know, if you aren't going to have most characters use magic—or, perhaps, base magic on Magery (in the Cthulhu Mythos I would recommend going for Power Investiture instead)—there really aren't any big point balance issues in having IQ cost 10/level.

Bill Stoddard

[GodlessRose]

Originally Posted by whswhs

If you uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and give them a base value of 10, then you really would do better to have IQ cost 10/level. Otherwise, if I wanted to build a character with IQ 15, Per 15, and Will 15, I would have to pay 150 points instead of 100, which is a really big surcharge. And you know, if you aren't going to have most characters use magic—or, perhaps, base magic on Magery (in the Cthulhu Mythos I would recommend going for Power Investiture instead)—there really aren't any big point balance issues in having IQ cost 10/level.

Bill Stoddard

I'm mainly using the rule in this campaign for consistency across campaigns, not because I think it is necessary in this particular case. Though I don't think 19 pts for IQ! is excessive regardless. It's just a matter of making players pay what it's worth, instead of giving them the point break the designers built in.

[Gollum]

Your house rule is interesting. But there is still a problem...

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

When confronted with Mythos phenomena (as opposed to ordinary scary stuff)...

What is exaclty the limit?

In Call of Cthulhu, there also are "ordinary" monsters. What about squelettons, zombies, etc. Are they ordinary monsters with ordinary fright-checks or, since they are summoned by myhtos forces, are they mythos monsters, with mythos fright-checks?

And what about ghoules? And what about Fungies? They are almost ordinary extraterrestrial...

If you make a difference between the two it will sometimes be hard to decide.

[Gollum]

It may be too late for this answer. You may have already played this adventure and then, my post will be useless... But perhaps not. See for yourself...

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

I'm planning a GURPS Call of Cthulhu game, set in the modern day. (Or possibly 1920s, but I'm not much of a history buff.)

Very good idea! I played it several times, both wiht GURPS 3 and 4, and it worked very well. Every time.

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

1) Power level: I'm leaning toward 100 point characters, on the theory that will give a sort of classic CoC feel - exceptional, but not larger-than-life heroes. I also plan to uncouple Will and Per from IQ, and charge the full 20 points per level for IQ. Which means characters will tend to cost a little more than by RAW, so 100 points might be more restrictive than I think. Any thoughts?

100 points is the power level I use for beginning Cthulhu investigators. Cthulhu's world is very dangerous, so the players need some quite good attributes and skills - in the Basic Roleplaying System, they have high enough attributes: 11.5 on average. And 100 points isn't too much. The characters remains quite ordinary humans... As long as the players don't put everything in only one attribute or skill, of course.

But I never uncoupled Will or Perception from Intelligence. Investigators are ordinary humans and so, I don't see why it could be usefull...

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

2) I haven't played a game with Mythos/Sanity-Blasting Fright Checks yet, but the rules seem a little harsh. Won't characters often wind up stunned and helpless as The Bad Thing comes to eat them? (I guess that's sort of the point, but still...)

I never used Cthlhupunk sanity rules. I find the Basic Set rules sufficient to do the job, and to do it very well - I fully do agree with David Johnston2, here.

Of course, cthulhean creatures are supposed to be much more frightening than "ordinary" monsters, because they don't correspond to our point of view about the reality... And with the Basic Roleplaying System rules, the characters lose more and more sanity... But Cthulhu investigators are very easy to create (these are disposable characters) while a GURPS character requires much more time (it is a fine-crafted character). And the fact of accumulating more and more disadvantages is frightening enough for the player. It gives him the feeling that his character becomes more and more silly...

For the fright check penalty, I just look at the type of dice rolled in the original scenario:

• 1 point gives +0
• 1d2 gives -1
• 1d4 gives -2
• 1d6 gives -3
• 1d8 (Walter Corbitt) gives -4
• 1d10 gives -5
• 1d12 gives -6
• Etc.

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

3) Mythos Awareness: In 4e, this would be Detect with Vague, Uncontrollable, and Unconscious Only, right?
4) The Innsmouth Look: My best guess is in 4e, this would be Short Lifespan with Self-Destruct and Distinctive Features, plus a zero-point feature that if the character "dies of old age" he becomes a Deep One NPC. Is there a better way to model it?

You don't have to bother with this. At least, not to play The Haunted.

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

5) In CthulhuPunk, characters must make special Mythos Fright Checks per each level of Mythos Lore gained, even if the skill is a default to Occultism (it defaults at -12). But unless I missed something, it doesn't specify at what level of skill the rolls start. I'm guessing they start at skill 3. So a character with IQ 13 who spends 1 point on Hidden Lore (Cthulhu) would have to make 10 rolls...

In my games, Cthulhu Mythos is just a IQ-based hard skill. It doesn't have any default. And the character doesn't have any penalty when he improves this skill. Again, the life of an investigator is dangerous enough to make him become crazy too easily. With a disposable rolled character, no matter. But with a detailed fine-crafted character, it is not a good idea.

Originally Posted by GodlessRose

6) In BRP CoC, characters can acquire Cthulhu Mythos skill involuntarily, as a result of failed sanity rolls.

In my games, they can't. The only way to improve Cthulhu Mythos is to study it. Or to put some earned character points in it, at the end of an adventure - when there is a good justification for that (becoming crazy during a while can be a good justification).

For learning Cthulhu Mythos, my rule is quite different from the one written in Cthulhupunk. The books are not rated in numbers like +2 or +5 in the skill, but in a number of character points that they can bring to the character.

A book described as giving +10% in a scenario, for instance, gives 8 character points (+2, to grade it out of 20 rather than out of 100, and x 4 because a +1 in a GURPS skill requires 4 character points).

Note that the character has to study enough time to earn these character points (I use the usual GURPS rule here: Improvement Through Study).

Oh! I forgot to tell. I don't use the conversion rules given in Cthulhupunk. Since I like to be able to convert characters or monsters during the game, I use simplified rules...

GURPS ST = Cthulhu STR
GURPS DX = Cthulhu DEX
GURPS IQ = (Cthulhu INT + Cthulhu EDU)/2
GURPS HT = Cthulhu CON

GURPS HP = GURPS ST
GURPS Move = Cthulhu Move
Etc.

And, for the skill, I just consider that...

• 25% is amateur = 10 in GURPS terms.
• 50% is good professional = 14 in GURPS terms.
• 75% is good expert = 18 in GURPS terms.

It's fast and easy to do it in my head. And I don't translate the whole NPC. Just the stats I need, as I need it.

[Amra]

Gollum - I like the quick conversion rules, especially the set skill % = skill level, that's quicker than the Cthulhupunk rules.

Because I see the CoC setting to be pretty gritty & realistic, I would also adjust most published scenario NPC Ability Scores, there tends to be way too many NPC Attributes in the 14-20 range in CoC scenarios. At least for people, halve the number of points over or under 10. Examples: CoC Str 18 becomes GURPS Str 14, CoC Dex 16 becomes GURPS Dex 13, etc.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Amra

Because I see the CoC setting to be pretty gritty & realistic, I would also adjust most published scenario NPC Ability Scores, there tends to be way too many NPC Attributes in the 14-20 range in CoC scenarios.

Yes, you're right. I noticed it too. But I never found it was a problem since, as said above, I make conversion during the adventure and, so, I rarely use NPC's attributes (apart from Health/Constitution, of course). Most often, success rolls are made against a skill.

Originally Posted by Amra

At least for people, halve the number of points over or under 10. Examples: CoC Str 18 becomes GURPS Str 14, CoC Dex 16 becomes GURPS Dex 13, etc.

This is a very good idea. Thanks for it.

[GodlessRose]

Originally Posted by Gollum

For the fright check penalty, I just look at the type of dice rolled in the original scenario:

• 1 point gives +0
• 1d2 gives -1
• 1d4 gives -2
• 1d6 gives -3
• 1d8 (Walter Corbitt) gives -4
• 1d10 gives -5
• 1d12 gives -6
• Etc.

I like this. After 1, the penalties equal the median roll, rounded down. But what about 5d10 (Ubbo-Sathla) or 1d100 (Cthulhu)? If we use the average roll as the fright check penalty, then these would be even harsher than in CthulhuPunk.