High-Tech issues, real-world equivalencies and questions - Page 9

Icelander · 03-05-2009, 11:10 AM

I‘ve got a few questions for grognards, sages and other people with too much free time. For the first section, I‘d especially welcome citations to relevant 4e books or PDFs and/or comments from the Powers That Be. For the second, I‘ll be getting into minutiae that is below the resolution of GURPS rules as written , many of which reference Douglas Cole‘s WCM (wound channel modifiers) and his excellent Pyramid article on Internal and Terminal Ballistics for GURPS. The second section can wait, though, I‘ll post it later.

Section the Ist

1) What real world concealable vest does the TL 8 Concealable Vest on p. HT66 represent? In GURPS, the DR of armour is rated as equivalent to the average damage of a threat that it‘s supposed to stop (problems with that can be solved by using Douglas Cole‘s Armour as Dice rule). That means that this DR 12/4 armour is NIJ Level IIIA (rated to stop high-velocity 9mm and .44 Magnum rounds), albeit barely (the .44 Magnum has an average damage of 12.5 points).

It covers the entire Torso hit location, but it only weights 2 lbs. and this weight apparently includes the ballistic plate carrier. Now, I‘ll freely admit that I‘m not an expert on the subject, but I have no idea where to get NIJ Level IIIA vests of that lightness. Most concealable examples are 5-6 lbs., do not cover the full Torso hit location and usually require the addition of an external ballistic carrier (which weights at least an extra pound or so) to use ballistic inserts. Indeed, given that the ballistic fibres preferred by most police departments and military forces have an areal density of 1.1 lb/sf and no practically useful real world usable fibre of which I‘m aware has an areal density much below 0.9 lb/sf at NIJ Level IIIA standards (and there are major problems with some of the lighter fibres, enough for them to have been pulled from service), I don‘t see how a whole human torso can be protected by a vest weighting in at only 2 lbs.

If there really is such a vest, I want to know how to get one. My best friend, a police officer, should not have to rely on the sub-standard gear he is issued if there exist such clearly superior examples. I don‘t want him going out in patrol without one.

2) Firearms that are available in different chamberings are often noted as such in the descriptions. The damage of such alternate chamberings is given, but the new Range is not noted. Nevertheless, I expect that it often has an impact on the Range statistic as well. To some extent, the same applies for variants with shorter or longer barrels. This decreases or increases damage, but surely it should have an impact on Range as well.

On p. HT91, what is the range of a .22 LR from the T/C Contender? The .30-30 Winchester? The .44 Magnum?

On p. HT96, what is the Range for the S&W Model 29 firing .44 Special? What about the 4“ barrel version firing .44 Magnum? And the 8.4“ barrel version, what Range does that get with the Magnum rounds?

On p. HT97, what Range does the Super Redhawk Alaskan get? The 2.6“ barrel is presumably worth a considerable reduction from the 7.5“ one, but no change in Range is noted.

On p. HT99, what is the Range of the Delta Elite in 10x25mm Auto? As far as I know, High-Tech does not include a Range statistic for this round from a pistol platform. And, another question, what loading does this damage stat represent? The FBI „medium“ load or the „full-house“ load originally planned?

On the same page, the AMT Hardballer Longslide has a barrel long enough to qualify for a damage boost (and +1 to Acc without being a Fine (Accurate) weapon, which I think is excessive, but I digress). What does that do to Range?

The Detonics Combat Master is a small gun. Does that penalise Range from that given for the full-size Colt Government?

On p. HT101 we get to the ubiquitous Glocks. The Glock 20 is a full-sized 10mm Auto gun and presumably has the same Range as the Delta Elite in 10mm Auto. The only problem is that I don’t know what Range that would be.

The Glock 31 in .357 SIG should probably have a slightly better range than the 9x19mm Parabellum, but how much better, I simply don’t know. High-Tech doesn’t say.

The compact and sub-compact Glocks do less damage. They should also have less Range, I think, but how much less?

On p. HT102, the SIG-Sauer P226 in .357 SIG should probably have the same Range as the Glock 31, but I don’t have that stat.

The more compact P228 and P229 should probably have less Range. I can guess that the 9mm versions would have Range 140/1,600 by comparing them to the P99 stats given (the P228 and P229 barrels are just 3mm shorter than the P99 barrel, surely below resolution), but the .357 SIG from the P229 has no published Range in GURPS as far as I know.

The same applies to the USP Compact on the same page. It suffers in Range, but how much? It has a 91mm barrel (97mm for the .45 ACP), which is even shorter than the P228/P229, but is that below the resolution or not?

On p. HT116, what is the Range of the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum from a Remington Model 700? What about the 7mm Remington Magnum?

3) On p. HT123, stats are given for the MP5/10A3 in 10x25mm Auto. Are these stats based on the ‘medium’ FBI load or the ‘full-house- load? The damage boost from pistol platform to SMG/carbine is a full 3 points, which is a lot more than any of the other calibres get, so I thought it might represent a different load. But then again, it might be that the 10x25mm Auto was energetic enough even in the ‘medium’ load to require a longer barrel to perform at full capability.

4) What real world knives represent Fine (Materials) combat knives? What about Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced)? And the Very Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced)? How does one judge what real world knives should give bonuses in GURPS terms? Is a Very Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced) knife a hand-crafted knife going for $1500 or are the top-end mass-produced knives good enough to qualify? Are any commercially produced combat knives Fine (Balanced)? What would you call the following knives, both in terms of size (some are on the breakpoint of large/small) and in terms of weapon quality? Would you allow any of them to get a skill bonus for use as an improvised tool (somewhat mutually exclusive with the qualities needed for a fighting knife, but a real consideration when selecting a knife)?

Ka-Bar USMC Combat Knife
M3 Trench Knife
M4 Bayonet
M9 Bayonet
Fairbairn-Sykes Fighting Knife
SOG SEAL Team Knife (also known as SEAL Knife 2000)
Timberline/Emerson SpecWar fixed-blade
Emerson CQC-7 Folder
Emerson SARK
Yarborough SFCK Mod 0 Knife
Jay Fisher ‘Macha’ CQC Knife
Jay Fisher PJLT Knife
MPK Knife
MPT Knife
Cold Steel Recon Tanto fixed-blade
Cold Steel Recon Scout fixed-blade
Cold Steel G.I. Tanto fixed-blade
Strider SMF Folder
Strider DB-L fixed-blade
Spyderco Military Model ComboEdge Knife

5) What real world sight does the Mini-Computer Sight on p. HT157 represent? And on the same page, what real world sight does the Advanced Thermal-Imaging sight represent?

6) On p. HT213, the weight for lockpicks is given as neg. Do higher quality lockpick set weight more and if so, how much more?

03-05-2009, 11:10 AM	#1
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	High-Tech issues, real-world equivalencies and questions I‘ve got a few questions for grognards, sages and other people with too much free time. For the first section, I‘d especially welcome citations to relevant 4e books or PDFs and/or comments from the Powers That Be. For the second, I‘ll be getting into minutiae that is below the resolution of GURPS rules as written , many of which reference Douglas Cole‘s WCM (wound channel modifiers) and his excellent Pyramid article on Internal and Terminal Ballistics for GURPS. The second section can wait, though, I‘ll post it later. Section the Ist 1) What real world concealable vest does the TL 8 Concealable Vest on p. HT66 represent? In GURPS, the DR of armour is rated as equivalent to the average damage of a threat that it‘s supposed to stop (problems with that can be solved by using Douglas Cole‘s Armour as Dice rule). That means that this DR 12/4 armour is NIJ Level IIIA (rated to stop high-velocity 9mm and .44 Magnum rounds), albeit barely (the .44 Magnum has an average damage of 12.5 points). It covers the entire Torso hit location, but it only weights 2 lbs. and this weight apparently includes the ballistic plate carrier. Now, I‘ll freely admit that I‘m not an expert on the subject, but I have no idea where to get NIJ Level IIIA vests of that lightness. Most concealable examples are 5-6 lbs., do not cover the full Torso hit location and usually require the addition of an external ballistic carrier (which weights at least an extra pound or so) to use ballistic inserts. Indeed, given that the ballistic fibres preferred by most police departments and military forces have an areal density of 1.1 lb/sf and no practically useful real world usable fibre of which I‘m aware has an areal density much below 0.9 lb/sf at NIJ Level IIIA standards (and there are major problems with some of the lighter fibres, enough for them to have been pulled from service), I don‘t see how a whole human torso can be protected by a vest weighting in at only 2 lbs. If there really is such a vest, I want to know how to get one. My best friend, a police officer, should not have to rely on the sub-standard gear he is issued if there exist such clearly superior examples. I don‘t want him going out in patrol without one. 2) Firearms that are available in different chamberings are often noted as such in the descriptions. The damage of such alternate chamberings is given, but the new Range is not noted. Nevertheless, I expect that it often has an impact on the Range statistic as well. To some extent, the same applies for variants with shorter or longer barrels. This decreases or increases damage, but surely it should have an impact on Range as well. On p. HT91, what is the range of a .22 LR from the T/C Contender? The .30-30 Winchester? The .44 Magnum? On p. HT96, what is the Range for the S&W Model 29 firing .44 Special? What about the 4“ barrel version firing .44 Magnum? And the 8.4“ barrel version, what Range does that get with the Magnum rounds? On p. HT97, what Range does the Super Redhawk Alaskan get? The 2.6“ barrel is presumably worth a considerable reduction from the 7.5“ one, but no change in Range is noted. On p. HT99, what is the Range of the Delta Elite in 10x25mm Auto? As far as I know, High-Tech does not include a Range statistic for this round from a pistol platform. And, another question, what loading does this damage stat represent? The FBI „medium“ load or the „full-house“ load originally planned? On the same page, the AMT Hardballer Longslide has a barrel long enough to qualify for a damage boost (and +1 to Acc without being a Fine (Accurate) weapon, which I think is excessive, but I digress). What does that do to Range? The Detonics Combat Master is a small gun. Does that penalise Range from that given for the full-size Colt Government? On p. HT101 we get to the ubiquitous Glocks. The Glock 20 is a full-sized 10mm Auto gun and presumably has the same Range as the Delta Elite in 10mm Auto. The only problem is that I don’t know what Range that would be. The Glock 31 in .357 SIG should probably have a slightly better range than the 9x19mm Parabellum, but how much better, I simply don’t know. *High-Tech* doesn’t say. The compact and sub-compact Glocks do less damage. They should also have less Range, I think, but how much less? On p. HT102, the SIG-Sauer P226 in .357 SIG should probably have the same Range as the Glock 31, but I don’t have that stat. The more compact P228 and P229 should probably have less Range. I can guess that the 9mm versions would have Range 140/1,600 by comparing them to the P99 stats given (the P228 and P229 barrels are just 3mm shorter than the P99 barrel, surely below resolution), but the .357 SIG from the P229 has no published Range in GURPS as far as I know. The same applies to the USP Compact on the same page. It suffers in Range, but how much? It has a 91mm barrel (97mm for the .45 ACP), which is even shorter than the P228/P229, but is that below the resolution or not? On p. HT116, what is the Range of the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum from a Remington Model 700? What about the 7mm Remington Magnum? 3) On p. HT123, stats are given for the MP5/10A3 in 10x25mm Auto. Are these stats based on the ‘medium’ FBI load or the ‘full-house- load? The damage boost from pistol platform to SMG/carbine is a full 3 points, which is a lot more than any of the other calibres get, so I thought it might represent a different load. But then again, it might be that the 10x25mm Auto was energetic enough even in the ‘medium’ load to require a longer barrel to perform at full capability. 4) What real world knives represent Fine (Materials) combat knives? What about Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced)? And the Very Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced)? How does one judge what real world knives should give bonuses in GURPS terms? Is a Very Fine (Materials) and Fine (Balanced) knife a hand-crafted knife going for $1500 or are the top-end mass-produced knives good enough to qualify? Are any commercially produced combat knives Fine (Balanced)? What would you call the following knives, both in terms of size (some are on the breakpoint of large/small) and in terms of weapon quality? Would you allow any of them to get a skill bonus for use as an improvised tool (somewhat mutually exclusive with the qualities needed for a fighting knife, but a real consideration when selecting a knife)? Ka-Bar USMC Combat Knife M3 Trench Knife M4 Bayonet M9 Bayonet Fairbairn-Sykes Fighting Knife SOG SEAL Team Knife (also known as SEAL Knife 2000) Timberline/Emerson SpecWar fixed-blade Emerson CQC-7 Folder Emerson SARK Yarborough SFCK Mod 0 Knife Jay Fisher ‘Macha’ CQC Knife Jay Fisher PJLT Knife MPK Knife MPT Knife Cold Steel Recon Tanto fixed-blade Cold Steel Recon Scout fixed-blade Cold Steel G.I. Tanto fixed-blade Strider SMF Folder Strider DB-L fixed-blade Spyderco Military Model ComboEdge Knife 5) What real world sight does the Mini-Computer Sight on p. HT157 represent? And on the same page, what real world sight does the Advanced Thermal-Imaging sight represent? 6) On p. HT213, the weight for lockpicks is given as neg. Do higher quality lockpick set weight more and if so, how much more? __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!