Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting

[ULFGARD]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

A GURPS:DF By Example adventure may not be a bad idea.

Somethign Like Tower of Octavius with an adventure built in and for DF.

As noted above, A town, a couple of Holes with monsters and treasure in them and a basic beastiary/encounter table to go with it.

Although converting other sources to gurps isnt hard in itself, I can see why a new GM might want something more like a turn key solution for his first attempts at reffing the game.

It should Include:
Near Town Map: Major Lanmarks Include

1. Town
2. Adventure Area 1
3. Adventure Area 2

Town Map:Major landmarks include

1. Location and Interior Map of Mayor/Duke/King (Quest Giver's) house/Mansion/Castle.
2. Location and Interior Map of Armory/Outfitters.
3. Location and Interior map of Tavern/Inn where the charachters will likely sleep.
4. Location and Interior Maps of the Guards Barracks.
5. Location and Interior Maps of a Temple/Mageria/Yerberia for Healing

Maps for the Adventure Areas.

Printable Sheets with the Stats for the Monsters in the Encounter Areas and Stats for Major NPCs(King, Captain of the Guard, Head Clerk at Outfitters etc).

Encounter Tables for Each of the Adventure Areas. For begining players and GMs 'I walk into a hole kill creatures and make their possesions my own' is plenty to handle, but you could throw a rudimentry plot in there as well.

The town map and data is infinitely reusable and could become a Base oF Ops for the carachters for many adventures as could either one of the adventure areas once the monsters are relocated to the afterlife.

This would also help the new GM see what kind of preparation is required to make a game run smoothly, and he could then begin generating his own by expanding the map of the town and its surroundings to encompass a country or continent. Throw in a few competing races and cities and before you know it, you've got a running world.


There may be alot of this stuff on e23 right now and I just dont see it. Although Caravan To Ein Aris is a good adventure, the meatier parts of it involves a level of inrtigue than most DFers arent really looking for. Nail Down 12-20 pages of PDF that contain a foothold into Dungeon Fantasy that is ready to play right out of the box.

It may be that because GURPS GMs love to microtweak thier worlds to death there hasn't been a market for this kind of 'starter module.' As we continue to pick up players from other systems, I think showing them a well written example of an adventure might make the transition for them easier.

For the Record, I love extending this idea to GURPS:(Insert Genre Here) By Example.

Nymdok

The 0one stuff on e23 is excellent for this. Don't want to map something out? Here you go. And it's CHEAP (a lot of mileage for $2). I grabbed some of 'em and have used them in my DF game with great success.

Some of it has good tools for determining what you, as GM, wants in each room (legend at the end with blank lines for filling info in). Perhaps some supplement that suggests maps? I don't know how licensing would work, though...

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Hidden Lore specialties? Give me a good reason why your character should have some.

Too bad DF isn't out in hardcover, so the player, to whom you ask this utterly stupid question, can't beat you repeatedly over the head with the book, after having shown you the various templates in DF1 and DF4, many of which empower players to give their characters several specialties of the Hidden Lore skill.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Too bad DF isn't out in hardcover, so the player, to whom you ask this utterly stupid question, can't beat you repeatedly over the head with the book, after having shown you the various templates in DF1 and DF4, many of which empower players to give their characters several specialties of the Hidden Lore skill.

Peter, you're heading down a path once tread by Tom Kalbfus when you make posts llike that...

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Too bad DF isn't out in hardcover, so the player, to whom you ask this utterly stupid question, can't beat you repeatedly over the head with the book, after having shown you the various templates in DF1 and DF4, many of which empower players to give their characters several specialties of the Hidden Lore skill.

How come the player can't point out that oversight of mine to me without resorting to violence?

[Rob Crawford]

What people want (I think) is to be captivated with an interesting world. Rules are a small part of RPGs, the most important part of RPGs is to have an inspiring game world.

That's the GMs responsibility.

And, seriously, there are literally HUNDREDS of PDFs on e23 and RPGNow that will provide the material either to help you build a setting, or to provide you with one already made.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

At the very least, Dungeon Fantasy needs a list of the languages within the setting, ...

I think this is the issue. DF isn't a setting, it's a method or style.

Edit to amplify: now, a posited setting or even multiple settings with certain ground rules, would be fertile ground for people to compose and submit adventures using the adventure template. Your hypothetical European style one, or another that's middle earth with the numbers filed off (or the land of Paksennarion) would work, as would all sorts of others.

Since each adventure will likely be, you know, a dungeon or at least a fixed locale, GMs could place them in appropriate context and move them around as needed for their campaigns.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I think this is the issue. DF isn't a setting, it's a method or style.

Yes, and one component of that style is that languages are of some importance. That's why they are in some of the templates in DF1. That's why Language Talent is on the list of allowed Advantages.

Part of the style, part of the style which Kromm intends, is for languages to be of non-zero importance. Kromm intends the style to be such that playing a Scholar will be fun. Such that utilizing scholarly skills will be fun and contribute to the party's progress towards their collective goal.


And keep in mind, I'm not making this up. Nor am I reading Kromm's mind. I'm simply pointing to what he wrote: The templates in DF1.

(Notice how the species templates in DF3 don't say anything about aging. That's because Kromm intends Longevity and Extended Lifespan and Early Maturation to have no relevance whatsoever during a DF campaign. If Kromm had intended languages to have no relevance whatsoever, he'd have omitted them from the templates, and removed Langauge Talent from the list of allowed Advantages. But he didn't.)

[ULFGARD]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

At the very least, Dungeon Fantasy needs a list of the languages within the setting, both living culture languages, special languages (Elemental Language, e.t.c.) and ancient languages. It's the kind of thing that some players will demand to be told about up front before they create their characters, and the kind of thing that an inexperienced GM will be unable to deliver.

I'm thinking the best solution would be a pseudo-European setting with a few major countries analogous to England, France, Germany, Spain and Italy, each with their own language, and a few common ancient languages (analogous to Latin, Greek and Arabic) and half a dozen obscure ancient languages (analogous to Egyptian, Babylonian, Sanskrit and so forth). Largely similar history as Europe, with an old empire that split into two parts, then collapsed due to barbarian invasions.


Likewise, a master list of all Hidden Lore specializations would be good, because it prevents the GM from inventing new ones to thwart the players. The DF1 and 4 PDFs already refer to a lot of specializations in their templats, but a definite statement that these are all that there are unless the GM explicitly says so before game start, would be good. Or if a few more are needed, then include them in the list in the setting PDF.


Basically, there are a bunch of character creation questions that aren't answered in the PDFs published so far, and leaving it up to GM decision is doing a disservice to inexperienced GMs, because either they don't know that they have to make those decisions before gamestart, or else if a player demands it they will not be able to make good decisions that can stand throughout the campaign.

Rather than a supplement, which, as others note, would tend to constrain future DF supplements, why not a Pyramid article? An "official" DF supplement would tend to make future supplements which built off the "generic skeleton lists" less useful to a whole host of us who have our own settings, want to convert favorite old settings/modules, or just want to whip up a quick game (and really, those templates are perfect for a "pick-up" game).

As a Pyramid article, it could be a set of simple lists of languages, Hidden Lore specializations, etc., and perhaps a couple of small (5 paragraph or so) sample settings using the material from the DF series. Or instead, perhaps a tool for generating the DF skeleton for your players which includes suggestions for lists of languages, skill specializations, etc.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

At the very least, Dungeon Fantasy needs a list of the languages within the setting, both living culture languages, special languages (Elemental Language, e.t.c.) and ancient languages. It's the kind of thing that some players will demand to be told about up front before they create their characters, and the kind of thing that an inexperienced GM will be unable to deliver.

I'm thinking the best solution would be a pseudo-European setting with a few major countries analogous to England, France, Germany, Spain and Italy, each with their own language, and a few common ancient languages (analogous to Latin, Greek and Arabic) and half a dozen obscure ancient languages (analogous to Egyptian, Babylonian, Sanskrit and so forth). Largely similar history as Europe, with an old empire that split into two parts, then collapsed due to barbarian invasions.

Goto e23 and buy The Alchemical Baroque. It covers all your stated needs. Sure it's psudeo-Enlightenment rather than psudeo-Medieval, but it's still psudeo-European.

[Phantasm]

The way I see it, anyone wanting an actual DF setting only has to strafe b-dog's multitude of DF threads here in the forums. He's done good work at building a setting, IMO; someone should collect the posts and put them into a Pyramid article.

(Ya hearin' me, b-dog?)