Low Tech Equipment Handout [to share] - Page 2

safisher · 12-24-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik1979

Note on Horses: I didn't bother improving the ST to Wt. ratio as per suggested in the horse threads since it was a very tricky matter because I wouldn't know the ST ranges of different breeds.

I thought the way you handled it was a good model for whoever writes an article on them. The additive method for improvements is especially good for getting a high price for a highly refined horse, without pricing the horse out of the range of a Wealthy knight.

nik1979 · 12-26-2008, 11:34 PM

Here are the much corrected revisions, both are Rapid Share sources.

Recently Revisited Equipment as of Dec 27 2008

Recently Revisited Horse Stats as of Dec 27 2008

Thanks Safisher!

mib2932, thanks for hosting them, I hope you can host these ones to.

Hope this makes the wait for Low Tech 4e more bearable. Up next would be outfit cards for Knights, Squires, Sergeants, Merc. Horsearchers, Elite Horsearchers, Kataphrakts, Savaran, Varangians and Faris. If someone can give me some helpful input on the slight differences per culture (Fatamid vs Seljuk; Holy Roman vs Frank... etc.) in skills and stats and the economic differences (Askari aka Retainers aka Bucellari vs Mercenary vs Irregulars/Seasonal) hence equipment differences, I'm very much open to the input.

I'm not a professional writer so pardon in advance for my mistakes.

hal · 12-27-2008, 05:11 AM

For those who might be interested, I picked up a book that might be of interest to a few of you here...

Armies and Warfare in the Middle Ages: The English Experience

I picked up a copy used for $5 not including S&H from Amazon.com, and for the money, I think it is really nice (Looks brand new but for a slight bump at the bottom of the spine - common as shelf-wear).

In it however, are some instances of prices for various items, including Haketons (reinforced leather) and other various goods. At one point, it lists the price of common war swords at 3 shillings 6 pence - half the cost of a longbow. 3 shillings 4 pence is 40 silver pennies, and a longbow at 80 silver pennies. At a 4:1 ratio of GURPS $ to silver pennies, we have a price of $160 for the swords, and $320 for the longbow. If common war swords are "cheap" versions of the weapons, then "normal quality" war swords would (by GURPS rules) be worth about $400 - not too far off the mark for a broadsword at $500.

However, the book lists the Hakerton (worthy of a king by the way) to be valued at 13 shillings whereas common hakertons to be worth about 5 shillings apiece. Bascinets fitted with aventails were valued at 3 shillings apiece (or the cost of a sword).

In any event, this would make for a nice read on its own merits, let alone for the data which can be mined from it.

nik1979 · 12-27-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hal

For those who might be interested, I picked up a book that might be of interest to a few of you here...

Armies and Warfare in the Middle Ages: The English Experience

I picked up a copy used for $5 not including S&H from Amazon.com, and for the money, I think it is really nice (Looks brand new but for a slight bump at the bottom of the spine - common as shelf-wear).

In it however, are some instances of prices for various items, including Haketons (reinforced leather) and other various goods. At one point, it lists the price of common war swords at 3 shillings 6 pence - half the cost of a longbow. 3 shillings 4 pence is 40 silver pennies, and a longbow at 80 silver pennies. At a 4:1 ratio of GURPS $ to silver pennies, we have a price of $160 for the swords, and $320 for the longbow. If common war swords are "cheap" versions of the weapons, then "normal quality" war swords would (by GURPS rules) be worth about $400 - not too far off the mark for a broadsword at $500.

However, the book lists the Hakerton (worthy of a king by the way) to be valued at 13 shillings whereas common hakertons to be worth about 5 shillings apiece. Bascinets fitted with aventails were valued at 3 shillings apiece (or the cost of a sword).

In any event, this would make for a nice read on its own merits, let alone for the data which can be mined from it.

Could it possible the swords are off the cheapest level of quality? Unbalanced and Cheap Steel (-80%) so a $160 warsword is $800? (a coincidence that I got the same in my own pricing).

These cheap swords were probably made by places like the Byzantine Fabricae (Factories) or specialized manufacturing communities created in times of war. Communities which the local management would create by rounding up all the traveling craftsmen (non-specialized artisans like blacksmiths) and put them up in a place for mass production. Which should not be confused with Guildsmen who are specialists and produce Good and better quality products (and proudly stamps their seal).

I've read that there were cheap swords for the seasonal/irregular troops. I'm sure the swords of professionals would be much harder to use for non-regulars. A difference that can be evident in the ST requirement. This would make a irregular soldier have a -3 to use a knights sword (unfamiliarty plus ST req. penalty), especially the larger Norman Knight sword.

Rasputin · 12-27-2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik1979

Here are the much corrected revisions

These are terrific. The horses one especially is a handy guide. Thanks!

mib2932 · 12-27-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik1979

Here are the much corrected revisions, both are Rapid Share sources.

And here they are, without having to use rapidshare:

Recently Revisited Equipment as of Dec 27 2008

Recently Revisited Horse Stats as of Dec 27 2008

nik1979 · 12-27-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mib2932

And here they are, without having to use rapidshare:

Recently Revisited Equipment as of Dec 27 2008

Recently Revisited Horse Stats as of Dec 27 2008

Thanks mib2932!

joncarryer · 12-27-2008, 09:15 AM

Very nice. Just one small quibble regarding hardened leather. AFAIK, it basically has the same kind of movement restrictions as plate, and all the sources I've seen would refer to arm and leg armour of hardened leather as bracers and greaves. Also, I seriously doubt that you can find an example of a hardened leather hauberk (unless maybe it was seriously flared at the waist), as you'd hardly be able to move in it.

12-26-2008, 11:34 PM	#2
nik1979 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Philippines, Makati	Re: Low Tech Equipment Handout [to share] Here are the much corrected revisions, both are Rapid Share sources. Recently Revisited Equipment as of Dec 27 2008 Recently Revisited Horse Stats as of Dec 27 2008 Thanks Safisher! mib2932, thanks for hosting them, I hope you can host these ones to. Hope this makes the wait for Low Tech 4e more bearable. Up next would be outfit cards for Knights, Squires, Sergeants, Merc. Horsearchers, Elite Horsearchers, Kataphrakts, Savaran, Varangians and Faris. If someone can give me some helpful input on the slight differences per culture (Fatamid vs Seljuk; Holy Roman vs Frank... etc.) in skills and stats and the economic differences (Askari aka Retainers aka Bucellari vs Mercenary vs Irregulars/Seasonal) hence equipment differences, I'm very much open to the input. I'm not a professional writer so pardon in advance for my mistakes. __________________ GMing Blog MIB#2428 Last edited by nik1979; 12-26-2008 at 11:55 PM.

12-27-2008, 05:11 AM	#3
hal Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: Low Tech Equipment Handout [to share] For those who might be interested, I picked up a book that might be of interest to a few of you here... Armies and Warfare in the Middle Ages: The English Experience I picked up a copy used for $5 not including S&H from Amazon.com, and for the money, I think it is really nice (Looks brand new but for a slight bump at the bottom of the spine - common as shelf-wear). In it however, are some instances of prices for various items, including Haketons (reinforced leather) and other various goods. At one point, it lists the price of common war swords at 3 shillings 6 pence - half the cost of a longbow. 3 shillings 4 pence is 40 silver pennies, and a longbow at 80 silver pennies. At a 4:1 ratio of GURPS $ to silver pennies, we have a price of $160 for the swords, and $320 for the longbow. If common war swords are "cheap" versions of the weapons, then "normal quality" war swords would (by GURPS rules) be worth about $400 - not too far off the mark for a broadsword at $500. However, the book lists the Hakerton (worthy of a king by the way) to be valued at 13 shillings whereas common hakertons to be worth about 5 shillings apiece. Bascinets fitted with aventails were valued at 3 shillings apiece (or the cost of a sword). In any event, this would make for a nice read on its own merits, let alone for the data which can be mined from it.

12-27-2008, 09:15 AM	#8
joncarryer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand	Re: Low Tech Equipment Handout [to share] Very nice. Just one small quibble regarding hardened leather. AFAIK, it basically has the same kind of movement restrictions as plate, and all the sources I've seen would refer to arm and leg armour of hardened leather as bracers and greaves. Also, I seriously doubt that you can find an example of a hardened leather hauberk (unless maybe it was seriously flared at the waist), as you'd hardly be able to move in it.