How to protect casters?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Tommi_Kovala

Why a squishy magic user? This is GURPS. He can be fit, adventurous, armed and armoured.
If you use GURPS: Magic, the deal is cheap enough for him to afford a modicum of martial prowess.

You'll still get more defensive horsepower out of Iron Arm or similar spell than Staff-parrying.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by younglorax

I think he was saying "Noobs, take note:" Not "Noobs! Take note..."

That is, he was just pointing out what's going on there to the noobs, not calling the ones who did it noobs.

That is correct, just making an alternate suggestion for anybody who may not have considered it. Sorry if that was unclear.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You'll still get more defensive horsepower out of Iron Arm or similar spell than Staff-parrying.

You're spending Fatigue to do that, and you can't cast Iron Arm or any other Blocking spell while holding a Missile or Melee spell. So it's not a perfect defense in all instances.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

A few problems with your math here. First, a skill level of 12 in staff gives you a parry of 11 (skill/2 + 3 +2). Next, rolling against an 11 is a 62.5% chance, and rolling against a 12 is 74.1%. All of which reinforce your overall point though, so no worries.

[Edit] You may have been thinking of rolling a D20, where 11 gives you 55% and 12 gives you 60.

He He He. Comes from goofing off at work...

Rolling an 18 on my Mathematics roll and failing to correctly divide 12 by 2 and then add 3 and then add 2...

Your Math points are well taken. In my own defense; "I am a historian not a mathematician dammit!" -Dr. Len McCoy

As to stats vs skills...

I cannot think of a character I would design with a DX of less than 11, 98% of them would have at least 12. Base Dex has too many uses for me to see it otherwise. Of Course YMMV...

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Randover

Sure but there are actualy people who like to make squishy magic users as there characters. Most of time they do not even borther to read combat system carefully, they like other parts of game...from social engeneering, to mystery solving. Having fighting/tactics types together with non-combat types of players is sometimes unavoidable...they are your friends. But on the other hand GM has to be creative not to put non-combat types into combat - or better said - leave them other choices how to solve things, and give the fighter/tactics types opportunity to shine.

All of the above is very true. I've seen a tactically oriented player use a fairly mediocre fighter to greater effect than a cerebral player could put a tactically awesome character. That's in a pregerated scenario. Now let the two types of players create characters that match their biases. It can get quite bad, but at the same time, it's a little unfair of the GM to say, "No, you can't create the character you want. You have to make him much more violent and combative." Thus, I think there's a large audience for advice on how tough-guy PCs can cover wimp PCs -- advice other than "Don't be a wimp, then!", I mean.

My only critique of the original post is that I hold out little hope that most of the likely advice will apply usefully to a two-man party. Formations resistant to flanking are only barely possible with three PCs, and really call for about six. Deep formations start around six and work better with huge groups of NPC spear-carriers. Neither is especially workable for two people. With parties that small, it's generally better to bite the bullet, avoid pitched battles, and have combat consist of "fighter holds off lone monster," "fighter is challenged to duel," "fighter distracts bad guys while friend sneaks," etc.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Kromm

With parties that small, it's generally better to bite the bullet, avoid pitched battles, and have combat consist of "fighter holds off lone monster," "fighter is challenged to duel," "fighter distracts bad guys while friend sneaks," etc.

And the ever popular...

"fighter dies with nobility, friend who ran away and lived mourns at his funeral."

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Deep formations start around six and work better with huge groups of NPC spear-carriers. Neither is especially workable for two people. With parties that small, it's generally better to bite the bullet, avoid pitched battles, and have combat consist of "fighter holds off lone monster," "fighter is challenged to duel," "fighter distracts bad guys while friend sneaks," etc.

One interesting thing about this that comes to mind is that at the higher power levels that DF style (or even just really good operators) can chalk up, it strikes me that having a literal bunch of spear-carriers at your disposal is not only believable, but likely.

Think it...you're Zarg the Mighty, Victor of the Thousand Battles. Your very name will inspire fear in your opponents, and respect in the typical bystander. People will be coming to YOU with requests to be a student, or participate in adventures. It would be trivial not only for the magic user to summon up the skeleton army as Kromm suggests, but for the Fighter to have with him an Ally group of literal spear (or rifle...) carriers that are responsible for the defensive formations, allowing Zarg to direct the battle (lots of Leadership and Tactics rolls), single out dangerous critters (Mighty Warrior...HO!), and spend the needed PER and Wait actions to protect Ganderalfredo the Summoner of Lightning.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Noobs, take note of the 40-60 additional points for high DX implicit in the suggestion above. High DX will help you with your speed and your resistance to feints, but for comparable points you could have DX 10 and Staff 20 for a base Parry of 15 instead (and resist feints quite well), or drop 8 points on the same Staff 12 and blow the rest on better IQ and spells that make you hard to hit.

Echoed. A player in my campaign did something like this with his priest: "Gee, I could have DX 13 and Staff-14 or DX 12 and Staff-18." Since he wasn't a physical type -- and had HT 12, so that DX 13 just meant Basic Speed 6.25 instead of 6, and thus no better Dodge -- he chose the latter. The +4 to skill and resulting +2 to Parry was totally worth it. Being good enough with a staff to strike vital areas, attempt Sweep at default, etc., also paid off for him.

Generally, if you're trying to give your squishy character a self-defense tool, "He studied self-defense with this one particular, highly defensive weapon until he was very confident with it," makes far more sense than, "He's agile but has no real combat training." And if the latter is truly where you're going with the concept, it's often smarter to leave DX at 10 and use the 40 points for +2 to Basic Speed. A direct +2 to Dodge and Basic Move (for running away!) will generally keep you alive for longer. And high Basic Speed lets you act early and take a Move maneuver directly away from trouble before the bad guys can fall upon you.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

You're spending Fatigue to do that, and you can't case Iron Arm or any other Blocking spell while holding a Missile or Melee spell. So it's not a perfect defense in all instances.

The things that always put Iron Arm out of the running in my games are (1) the one Blocking spell-per-turn limit (if you're being flanked, you're usually outnumbered, and if you're outnumbered, you're usually facing many attacks per turn), and (2) all the stuff Iron Arm is worthless against, particularly the missiles that tend to get rained down on wizards who are floating or hanging back. Well, those things and areas without mana.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

It would be trivial not only for the magic user to summon up the skeleton army as Kromm suggests, but for the Fighter to have with him an Ally group of literal spear (or rifle...) carriers that are responsible for the defensive formations

On a more modest level, I see this in my current campaign, too. The PC general has four praetorians at his beck and call -- ostensibly bodyguards, but really more like gofers -- and these chaps generally get put on the party's flank, where they protect the potion-tossing artificer and death bolt-slinging priest. Now these are low-grade Allies, worth perhaps only 1/4 to 1/2 their PC's points . . . but the PC is worth around 900 points and the NPCs have "leveled up" to keep pace, so they're respectable 300-points-ish warriors. A pure 300-point warrior set to watch your flank does a respectable job.