Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill?

vicky_molokh · 04-18-2008, 01:49 AM

Greetings, all!

It came to me as a disappointing observation, originally from VtM/ST, then from the VtM/Bloodlines CRPG, and only then from GURPS, that Intimidation is by far the most useless Influence Skill. Compared to others, it has too many drawbacks and almost no benefits:

Diplomacy doesn't give a bad reaction on a failure, and it gives an automatic +2 at level 20. Well yeah, it's Hard.
Sex Appeal gives a Very Good reaction on a success; it is HT-based, which makes it available to fighters and other non-IQ-sorts; it is the only skill where the GM can't deny you your Reaction Modifiers (esp. Appearance). As a drawback, it only works on those attracted to your sex. A good deal for an Average Skill.
Fast-Talk is the most balanced one. No special benefits or drawbacks, but it happens to be used to resist Detect Lies. An Average Skill with average properties.
Intimidation has nasty results on a failure . . . and not-so-good ones on a Success. It can't be used to gain a truly friendly reaction, and always gives some nasty consequences once the success wears off. It is at -3 to request for aid.

What's the point in investing in this Average skill? Especially given that it costs 4/level in the end, while Will costs 5/level? To me, it seems that Diplomacy or Fast-Talk is always a better way to go, and Sex Appeal is always a better secondary to any of those two (compared to Intimidation).

Thanks in advance to all who answer!

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 04-18-2008, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molokh

Greetings, all!

It came to me as a disappointing observation, originally from VtM/ST, then from the VtM/Bloodlines CRPG, and only then from GURPS, that Intimidation is by far the most useless Influence Skill. Compared to others, it has too many drawbacks and almost no benefits:

Diplomacy doesn't give a bad reaction on a failure, and it gives an automatic +2 at level 20. Well yeah, it's Hard.
Sex Appeal gives a Very Good reaction on a success; it is HT-based, which makes it available to fighters and other non-IQ-sorts; it is the only skill where the GM can't deny you your Reaction Modifiers (esp. Appearance). As a drawback, it only works on those attracted to your sex. A good deal for an Average Skill.
Fast-Talk is the most balanced one. No special benefits or drawbacks, but it happens to be used to resist Detect Lies. An Average Skill with average properties.
Intimidation has nasty results on a failure . . . and not-so-good ones on a Success. It can't be used to gain a truly friendly reaction, and always gives some nasty consequences once the success wears off. It is at -3 to request for aid.

What's the point in investing in this Average skill? Especially given that it costs 4/level in the end, while Will costs 5/level? To me, it seems that Diplomacy or Fast-Talk is always a better way to go, and Sex Appeal is always a better secondary to any of those two (compared to Intimidation).

Thanks in advance to all who answer!

One possibility is that Intimidation can realistically be used in a wide range of situations, including not just pre-combat but also actual combat, in which the other Influence skills can't.

Not sure if that is supported by the rules, though. It's a long while since I read the rules for Influence skills in GURPS.

Tommi_Kovala · 04-18-2008, 02:19 AM

It's a flavour issue, too. A menacing warrior doesn't "fast-talk" or "negotiate" an enemy into submission.

transmetahuman · 04-18-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi_Kovala

It's a flavour issue, too. A menacing warrior doesn't "fast-talk" or "negotiate" an enemy into submission.

To say nothing of Sex Appeal... :)

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 04-18-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi_Kovala

It's a flavour issue, too. A menacing warrior doesn't "fast-talk" or "negotiate" an enemy into submission.

Also, there are certain things you can do which should grant bonuses to Intimidation skill rolls (smoe of these are, IIRC, covered in the core book): Displays of great physical prowess. Drawing your weapon (bonus depending on how much of a warrior the other guy is). And so forth.

Phoenix_Dragon · 04-18-2008, 03:22 AM

Yeah, it's pretty much that it's useful in a good number of situations where the others are not. Plus the fact that you can often get the opportunity to use Intimidation as a "special effect" freebie from certain other actions (A single style perk for this is often VERY useful). And it's very easy to gain extra bonuses on, due to actions, situation, or just who you are (Sure, you could pay points for appearance to boost Sex Appeal. Or you could get points for Callous to boost Intimidation...).

Most notable to me is that it's rapidly enough available to use in an emergency.

Phil Masters · 04-18-2008, 03:48 AM

When you've got your foot on the goblin's chest and your sword at his throat, and you want to know how many other goblins there are in the nest...

You are not using Diplomacy.

Influence skills aren't just a bundle of functionally identical "influence" game effects with different names. They're different skills that do different things, some of which happen to be covered by similar rules mechanisms.

chris1982 · 04-18-2008, 04:40 AM

Also as a GM I will give nice Boni to Intimidation rolls when the situation is good for it e.g. Sword to Throat - So there is no need to buy the skill up to ungodly levels...

Tommi_Kovala · 04-18-2008, 06:02 AM

But Vicky, I assume you've got MA. Read "mind games" again.

kasamui · 04-18-2008, 06:52 AM

As a GM I don't give my players wide selection of influence skills to use - sometimes they can choose between Diplomacy and Fast-Talk, but not always. It depends on a situation what kind of influence skill they can try to use, how long will it take, who they are trying to talk to, and what the effect will be.
Fast-talk, for example, won't affect the target for a very long time - if he'll rethink the whole situation he'll probably make up his mind to his advantage.

If you negotiate with a politician about,. say, peace treaty or something like that, diplomacy probably will be the only choice - doesn matter if other skill is better, and if you have it on IQ+20. You suck at diplomacy, you're no good.

And intimidation has many situations in which only it can be used. Many enemies for, for example, won't even listen to your persuasion, unless you threat them. Fast-talk may be better, but you're only allowed to make an Intimidation roll.

That's my point of view. You can't just stick with one influence skill. Of course, you may favor one, and try to come to situations when this skill will come in handy (beating up a merchant instead of haggling with him - maybe this example isn't the best, but you get the idea.).

And, of course, intimidation is much cooler to use.

04-18-2008, 01:49 AM	#1
vicky_molokh GURPS FAQ Keeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kyïv, Ukraine	Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? Greetings, all! It came to me as a disappointing observation, originally from VtM/ST, then from the VtM/Bloodlines CRPG, and only then from GURPS, that Intimidation is by far the most useless Influence Skill. Compared to others, it has too many drawbacks and almost no benefits: Diplomacy doesn't give a bad reaction on a failure, and it gives an automatic +2 at level 20. Well yeah, it's Hard. Sex Appeal gives a Very Good reaction on a success; it is HT-based, which makes it available to fighters and other non-IQ-sorts; it is the only skill where the GM can't deny you your Reaction Modifiers (esp. Appearance). As a drawback, it only works on those attracted to your sex. A good deal for an Average Skill. Fast-Talk is the most balanced one. No special benefits or drawbacks, but it happens to be used to resist Detect Lies. An Average Skill with average properties. Intimidation has nasty results on a failure . . . and not-so-good ones on a Success. It can't be used to gain a truly friendly reaction, and always gives some nasty consequences once the success wears off. It is at -3 to request for aid. What's the point in investing in this Average skill? Especially given that it costs 4/level in the end, while Will costs 5/level? To me, it seems that Diplomacy or Fast-Talk is always a better way to go, and Sex Appeal is always a better secondary to any of those two (compared to Intimidation). Thanks in advance to all who answer! __________________ Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

04-18-2008, 02:19 AM	#3
Tommi_Kovala Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? It's a flavour issue, too. A menacing warrior doesn't "fast-talk" or "negotiate" an enemy into submission.

04-18-2008, 03:22 AM	#6
Phoenix_Dragon Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? Yeah, it's pretty much that it's useful in a good number of situations where the others are not. Plus the fact that you can often get the opportunity to use Intimidation as a "special effect" freebie from certain other actions (A single style perk for this is often VERY useful). And it's very easy to gain extra bonuses on, due to actions, situation, or just who you are (Sure, you could pay points for appearance to boost Sex Appeal. Or you could get points for Callous to boost Intimidation...). Most notable to me is that it's rapidly enough available to use in an emergency.

04-18-2008, 03:48 AM	#7
Phil Masters Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: U.K.	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? When you've got your foot on the goblin's chest and your sword at his throat, and you want to know how many other goblins there are in the nest... You are not using Diplomacy. Influence skills aren't just a bundle of functionally identical "influence" game effects with different names. They're different skills that do different things, some of which happen to be covered by similar rules mechanisms. __________________ -- Phil Masters My Home Page. My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.

04-18-2008, 04:40 AM	#8
chris1982 Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? Also as a GM I will give nice Boni to Intimidation rolls when the situation is good for it e.g. Sword to Throat - So there is no need to buy the skill up to ungodly levels...

04-18-2008, 06:02 AM	#9
Tommi_Kovala Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? But Vicky, I assume you've got MA. Read "mind games" again.

04-18-2008, 06:52 AM	#10
kasamui Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Torun, Poland	Re: Intimidation - the most useless Influence Skill? As a GM I don't give my players wide selection of influence skills to use - sometimes they can choose between Diplomacy and Fast-Talk, but not always. It depends on a situation what kind of influence skill they can try to use, how long will it take, who they are trying to talk to, and what the effect will be. Fast-talk, for example, won't affect the target for a very long time - if he'll rethink the whole situation he'll probably make up his mind to his advantage. If you negotiate with a politician about,. say, peace treaty or something like that, diplomacy probably will be the only choice - doesn matter if other skill is better, and if you have it on IQ+20. You suck at diplomacy, you're no good. And intimidation has many situations in which only it can be used. Many enemies for, for example, won't even listen to your persuasion, unless you threat them. Fast-talk may be better, but you're only allowed to make an Intimidation roll. That's my point of view. You can't just stick with one influence skill. Of course, you may favor one, and try to come to situations when this skill will come in handy (beating up a merchant instead of haggling with him - maybe this example isn't the best, but you get the idea.). And, of course, intimidation is much cooler to use.