GURPS Space: Stardrives

[mindstalk]

Also, as far as "lower tech" colonies... Polynesians brought their tech with them, AFAIK Greek colony-cities didn't dip much, and had lots of trade. Americas... some things might have been cruder, but you still had trade, and AFAIK nothing dropped even as much as a single tech level. The setup in Firefly is more like 40,000 in Gehenna than anything I can think of in history, like people were *dumped* rather than voluntary migration. Bujold's Barrayar dropped in tech level due to wormhole closing and possibly unspecified disasters. The Amish have been cautious about adopting new tech, not AFAIK people who specifically turned the clock back, apart from rare immigrants. "Back to the land" communes are rare and rarely self-sustaining.

Point being... I'm skeptical of voluntary migration to colonies -- permament settlements with intent to raise families and die -- with massively lower tech levels than what people are used to. People will want to bring their toys along or not go. Or be so desperate that scrabbling beats staying at home, but that level of desperation or dystopian origins conflicts with "voluntary".

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by mindstalk

Bujold's Barrayar dropped in tech level due to wormhole closing and possibly unspecified disasters.

I think Barrayar's tech was dependent on infusions of technology from outside; once the wormhole closed, they were reduced to what they could make themselves with the infrastructure they had.

Point being... I'm skeptical of voluntary migration to colonies -- permament settlements with intent to raise families and die -- with massively lower tech levels than what people are used to. People will want to bring their toys along or not go. Or be so desperate that scrabbling beats staying at home, but that level of desperation or dystopian origins conflicts with "voluntary".

Yep. Ever since Paul Erlich's population bomb turned out to be a damp squib, SF authors have been struggling to find another reason for interstellar colonization.

[IrishRover]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Indeed.

Smuggling requires the ability to go "off the trail" on routes the Navy doesn't patrol – so no point-to-point. It also requires the ability to get contraband down to the planet without getting caught, which is the real bottleneck, no mater what stardrive you use.
Piracy requires that the legitimate trade use those same unpatrolled routes, or a navy that is seriously under-resourced. Boarding actions aren't really affected by stardrive, unless you want them to actually occur in FTL.

Both of these are very good to have.
Realistically, it takes an awfully long time to grow interstellar colonies, unless you assume population growth rates will be considerably larger than they are now. Do we really need a limit?

Smuggling doesn't require the ability to go off the trail...just the ability to build some secret compartments, or bribe customs officials. LOTS of smuggling is done on legitimately registered ships, showing up on schedule.

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

Originally Posted by Sanity

. . . any military action idiotic.

You simply can not attack any world. You come out of hyperspace, with your primitive weaponry...

...and get destroyed by computer controlled missiles from automatic defense satellites.

See, just because they discovered hyperspace made not made electronic disappear. And as long as my defense systems are not traveling through hyperspace... they can use all that electronic equipment. This gives a TREMENDOUS advantage to any local defense, to a level that makes fighting non-sensical.

All too true.

So, what you have on your ships is all the latest/greatest electronic equipment but WITHOUT the hyperspace allergic integrated circuits.

You also have a standard issue GURPS Ultra Tech Minifac (model H for Hyperspace -- made with tubes. Okay, it's going to take up a lot of room . . . )

It is hard-wired to produce all the needful integrated circuits you need as soon as you download (yourself) into ordinary N-space from H-space. Warp in, built the circuits, plug 'em in, and you're right back to TL 10 where you belong.

Now, it's going to take x number of days to do this, so you're going to be vulnerable until then. . . .

Okay. Just an idea.

[I spoke too fast -- No. 52 already had my idea. Consider this just a modification thereof.]

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Yeah, I said originally that you went through the portal and you appeared to be on the inside of a tornado made of energy.

Experienced "swirlway jockeys" call the experience "riding the flush."

Surf's up!

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by IrishRover

Smuggling doesn't require the ability to go off the trail...just the ability to build some secret compartments, or bribe customs officials. LOTS of smuggling is done on legitimately registered ships, showing up on schedule.

True, but we are talking RPGs and PC smugglers here. Some may be happy with that route. But others will want to take their stealthy yacht, load it with weapons, and deliver them to the rebels on planet X after running the blockade.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

You also have a standard issue GURPS Ultra Tech Minifac (model H for Hyperspace -- made with tubes. Okay, it's going to take up a lot of room . . . )

It is also going to draw a lot of power, run very slowly, and have a very short average time between breakdowns. I don't think it will work. Wouldn't it be better to lug along a hyperspace-tolerant silicon lithography plant?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

It is also going to draw a lot of power, run very slowly, and have a very short average time between breakdowns. I don't think it will work. Wouldn't it be better to lug along a hyperspace-tolerant silicon lithography plant?

Unless hyperspace actually eats silicon (in which case you switch to germanium or something), you just pre-manufacture the chips up to whatever point triggers the hyperspace allergy. Note that, even if microchips can't work in hyperspace, you wouldn't go to vacuum tubes; there are more recent technologies that don't operate remotely like transistors but can still outperform vacuum tubes.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unless hyperspace actually eats silicon (in which case you switch to germanium or something), you just pre-manufacture the chips up to whatever point triggers the hyperspace allergy. Note that, even if microchips can't work in hyperspace, you wouldn't go to vacuum tubes; there are more recent technologies that don't operate remotely like transistors but can still outperform vacuum tubes.

I like the 'solution' Eris Reddoch mentioned on the TML, years ago - it's not hyperspace that's hard on electronics, but gravitic technology. Such technology fries any really miniature electronics in a huge volume (planetary diameters 'huge'), but is so cheap and useful that everyone wants it anyway, so nobody uses modern-style electronics.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I like the 'solution' Eris Reddoch mentioned on the TML, years ago - it's not hyperspace that's hard on electronics, but gravitic technology. Such technology fries any really miniature electronics in a huge volume (planetary diameters 'huge'), but is so cheap and useful that everyone wants it anyway, so nobody uses modern-style electronics.

The real problem with all solutions of this type is that it's possible to create electronics that will withstand any form of punishment that humans can survive, so in the end it always has a strong Magic Handwavium feel. At that point, you might as well just pull Magic in directly (psionics, for example).