GURPS Spaceships Power Plants

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

the Spaceships system is meant to be simple.

Simple? We can't even build a Shuttle with it. Can't even vaguely convert between SS units and RW units without making a theorem based on no less than two scientific wild-mass guesses. You call that simple?

[Langy]

Yes. Real World stuff isn't simple. The Shuttle isn't simple. The Spaceships design system is.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Simple? We can't even build a Shuttle with it. Can't even vaguely convert between SS units and RW units without making a theorem based on no less than two scientific wild-mass guesses. You call that simple?

Yes. The Space Shuttle is pretty much the antithesis of simplicity, for one. And simplicity doesn't require or in any way benefit from information only useful to people doing hard physics gearhead stuff.

I care for the applied physics rather more than the simple, but be fair...

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Langy

Yes. Real World stuff isn't simple. The Shuttle isn't simple. The Spaceships design system is.

I can more-or-less model a weightlifter in GURPS, because GURPS uses pounds for weight. I can't properly model ships with GURPS SS, even without the design stage (i.e. just assigning statistical data), because I have no idea how much a PP is, or what is the effect of Hnd on turning radii (in air) and response delay.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Simple? We can't even build a Shuttle with it. Can't even vaguely convert between SS units and RW units without making a theorem based on no less than two scientific wild-mass guesses. You call that simple?

Simple in that most of the details are supposed to be abstracted away. This unfortunately makes things more complicated for those of us not content to color within the lines.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Molokh

I can more-or-less model a weightlifter in GURPS, because GURPS uses pounds for weight. I can't properly model ships with GURPS SS, even without the design stage (i.e. just assigning statistical data), because I have no idea how much a PP is, or what is the effect of Hnd on turning radii (in air) and response delay.

Turning radii for GURPS 4e are covered fully by the high-speed maneuvering rules in or about the tactical combat chapter, are they not? I'm pretty sure they're a huge failure of realism, but they are there.

As for inability to model ships...if the definition that you're trying to model includes specific power outputs, I don't think you're looking at what you have correctly. Spaceships takes the view that just how many GW your reactor puts out isn't really essential to anything, and to a degree that's true.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Turning radii for GURPS 4e are covered fully by the high-speed maneuvering rules in or about the tactical combat chapter, are they not? I'm pretty sure they're a huge failure of realism, but they are there.

Well, the radius gained from Basic Speed doesn't always match the RW radius. But I guess that's obvious already.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Simple? We can't even build a Shuttle with it.

Well, that's what you expect of a simple representation system: inability to model very complicated things.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

It pretty much has to; otherwise the PP to fire a laser wouldn't fuel the same RoF for a particle beam, for instance, which would be a major accounting headache if your ship has both.

The PP to fire a laser are the same as the ones to fire particle beams at that TL. Spaceships needs a rate of use v rate of production system because it turn length is variable depending on range and speed. However, the longer the turn the more total weapon fires you get in that turn.

I am _not_ sure that 1 PP at TL9 or 10 is the same as 1 PP at TL11 or 12. At least at one point in the playtests when we were trying to deal with using components from multiple TLs this was the case. Perhaps it was changed.

What I can say is that 1 PP is the output of devoting 5% of your ship's mass to a "standard" Power Plant at a given TL. If you firmly believe that the output of power plants per unit of mass should go up as higher tL types replace lower TL ones then you probably don't believe in cross-TL PP.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say that Spaceships is a deliberately simplified system designed for ease of play. If you keep trying to stretch it, it's going to break on you.

If you want a comprehensive system designed for ultimate flexibility you're going to have to wait for VDS (and possibly convince Kromm that such systems aren't counter-productive to the overall line).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I am _not_ sure that 1 PP at TL9 or 10 is the same as 1 PP at TL11 or 12. At least at one point in the playtests when we were trying to deal with using components from multiple TLs this was the case. Perhaps it was changed.

If it has changed there are numerous hard to justify consequences, such as high-TL ion drives, refineries, etc consuming more power for no benefit. Also, of course, it would imply n extremely negligent attitude toward mixed-TL settings or designs. Which seems unlikely given that THS is one.