Wealth in DF

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Harald387

250 points is thought of as 'starting' because that's what Dungeon Fantasy recommends for starting characters and provides in its templates. In fact, 250 points is a pretty seasoned adventurer, but I wouldn't really be wanting to crawl into a dungeon full of nasties with some rank noob anyway. If you want to represent some of that 250 points as 'I have a magic penetrating sword', you'll have a leg up against high-DR critters over the guy who took more skill; you trade off in that you don't have his skills. This is fair and balanced.

The problem is that it might well be fair and ballanced innitialy. But then everyone one raids a dungeon and gets 10,000 in equipment, suddenly the guy who didn't start off with the equipment, but skills has a serious advantage.

Everyone gets better equipment over the course of the game, so unless you make it so that the equipment guy still has equipment an order of magnitude more valuable than everyone else, he made a bad decision.

[Kromm]

The difference is that SG buys the adventurer this guarantee: "the GM's word that he won't often be without it." A found sword -- even Excalibur -- is fair game for quickling pickpockets, Disintegrate spells, and random "items that fall down the well when you jump" rolls. SG is not. Your dad's fine rapier might not be a fine, balanced, Defending Rapier of Piercing, but on the other hand, you'll always have it. If you don't think your GM is evil, and you're willing to roll the dice on it, just avoid SG and trust in your ordinary gear. SG is there for paranoid players who consider "I have a rapier, even when we're stripped naked and being fed to Cthulhu" to be a crucial ability; it isn't merely a cash substitute.

[kpram]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Everyone gets better equipment over the course of the game, so unless you make it so that the equipment guy still has equipment an order of magnitude more valuable than everyone else, he made a bad decision.

In the long run, we're all dead, so everyone who didn't buy Unkillable made a bad decision. Spending points on equipment is an investment in making sure you live long enough to make more money. One way to survive is to have the good equipment, and some folks without the right gear won't live long enough to get it.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The difference is that SG buys the adventurer this guarantee: "the GM's word that he won't often be without it." A found sword -- even Excalibur -- is fair game for quickling pickpockets, Disintegrate spells, and random "items that fall down the well when you jump" rolls. SG is not. Your dad's fine rapier might not be a fine, balanced, Defending Rapier of Piercing, but on the other hand, you'll always have it. If you don't think your GM is evil, and you're willing to roll the dice on it, just avoid SG and trust in your ordinary gear. SG is there for paranoid players who consider "I have a rapier, even when we're stripped naked and being fed to Cthulhu" to be a crucial ability; it isn't merely a cash substitute.

So in other words it is unbreakable, and it perfect for those who worry about the GM running a prison break game as you will have your sword with you in prison.

It really is no different than buying it as an innate attack.

[Gavynn]

I would not let the SG gear go that far. If you are captured and naked in a jail cell you still don't have the rapier. But the SG means that your captures have not fed it to a rust monster of flung it down a pit. It is around somewhere and recoverable at some point during the escape, even if none of the other player's gear is.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I would not let the SG gear go that far. If you are captured and naked in a jail cell you still don't have the rapier. But the SG means that your captures have not fed it to a rust monster of flung it down a pit. It is around somewhere and recoverable at some point during the escape, even if none of the other player's gear is.

Exactly. The guard outside the cell bought it from the quartermaster, and you just have to mug him after you escape from the cell to get it back. Or it's on the rack down the hall and around the corner, behind the captains bench. Or someone's mounted it on a plaque as a trophy and hung it in the hall.

It is nigh unbreakable because it won't get targeted by an ogre looking to sunder weapons, or a rust monster looking for breakfast, or Explosion spells, or evil shape metal attacks or whatever.

If you deliberately poke the rust monster with it, it still goes blooey. If you try (and fail) to parry the tree, it probably breaks. And don't use it as a crowbar either.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Exactly. The guard outside the cell bought it from the quartermaster, and you just have to mug him after you escape from the cell to get it back. Or it's on the rack down the hall and around the corner, behind the captains bench. Or someone's mounted it on a plaque as a trophy and hung it in the hall.

It is nigh unbreakable because it won't get targeted by an ogre looking to sunder weapons, or a rust monster looking for breakfast, or Explosion spells, or evil shape metal attacks or whatever.

If you deliberately poke the rust monster with it, it still goes blooey. If you try (and fail) to parry the tree, it probably breaks. And don't use it as a crowbar either.

Only successful parries break weapons. If you fail you do not get the weapon in the way of the attack

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Only successful parries break weapons. If you fail you do not get the weapon in the way of the attack

You can "successfully" parry a very heavy weapon only to have it smash through your weapon and squash you flat anyways. Generally only applies to ogres with trees, or people trying to parry a charging bull or car crash ;)

That is what I'd call a very failed parry.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I would not let the SG gear go that far. If you are captured and naked in a jail cell you still don't have the rapier. But the SG means that your captures have not fed it to a rust monster of flung it down a pit. It is around somewhere and recoverable at some point during the escape, even if none of the other player's gear is.

Well, yes. You don't literally have a rapier hidden on your person while naked. However, it's near enough by that the GM should allow an Acrobatics roll to swing over and get it with your foot while hanging over the pit, or a Sex Appeal roll to make the guards stupidly bring it over where you can grab it.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by kpram

Spending points on equipment is an investment in making sure you live long enough to make more money. One way to survive is to have the good equipment, and some folks without the right gear won't live long enough to get it.

An oft-missed point -- I applaud your insight! Many things that "won't be worth the points" 50, 100, 150, or more points down the line are great right now, when the campaign starts. They ensure that you'll earn those 50+ points without dying first, or without acquiring a problem like One Hand. Those who think that spending 10 points on Signature Gear armor is wasteful are welcome not to do so; those who do, though, won't die or lose important body parts as easily. And dungeon fantasy is a subgenre where the GM is actually supposed to be trying to dismember, rob, and kill the PCs. It's his job, as he represents the Opposition, whom the PCs are themselves trying to kill and rob. Thus, SG is many times more likely to be a good investment in dungeon fantasy than in most genres.

Points in SG or just ordinary cash are a lot like points spent to buy success (p. B347) or a flesh wound (p. B417): they don't really give you any long-term power that will evolve and grow with your PC. However, they might well buy you the opportunity to still have a PC who can evolve and grow. It's up to you whether you think this is a good investment. It's a lot like "What's better? $1,000 on a new cardio machine or $1,000 in my IRA?" If you die of a heart attack at 45, you might have wished you had worked out more . . .