So...GURPS D&D?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Sure, but the two Dungeon Fantasy books don't replace Magic in any way, or even the pertient parts of Martial Arts.

Note that this wasn't their goal. Paul and I have said repeatedly here and on RPGnet that, were we shooting for a self-contained game intended to go toe-to-toe with D&D, it would look nothing like DF.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'd much have preferred to see a version of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy that did away with spells, and handled everything with Advantages.

Well, since part of our marketing goal with DF was to raise the profile of GURPS as an FRPG and ultimately sell more copies of Fantasy and Magic, that wouldn't have been a good approach.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

GURPS already has Healing, and Speak With Animals/Plants as ready-to-use advantages, so with some extra work put into it, you could have built ready-to-use advantage versions of Offensive Fire Magic, Fire Shield, Lightning Bolt, Invisibility, Illusions and so forth, and of course also pointed out the most obvious enhancers for Healing (such as Ranged, and Accurate to give a bonus to the roll).

That wouldn't have made GURPS look half as attractive to FRPG players, though. Magic contains well over 800 spells! There's no way I could include that many abilities built from advantages in a PDF.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

As for Martial Arts, re-printing the 2-3 most crucial pages of Techniques would do the trick (at least you did reprint the archery advantage, but that's not enough).

Techniques are a fussy advanced concept. They're really not very attractive or easy to understand for those not interested in full-bore Martial Arts action.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Likewise, I'm very disappointed to see that there aren't any pre-built advantages for Monks and Bards; instead, players must build them themselves, then do the arithmetic, and then submit the final advantage builds to the GM to see if he approves them.

Did you perhaps not read pp. 21-22 of the PDF? All of the abilities for Bard-Song and Chi Mastery (and also Druidic Arts and Holy Might) are completely worked out, with all of the modifiers and point costs. All players have to do is write them down and pay the points.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Oh, and by the way, where are the "racial" templates?

Coming in a future installment. This is a PDF series -- which might go to dozens of PDFs -- not an all-in-one product.

You seem to have a weird idea about what DF was supposed to be. It's meant as an extended series of inexpensive game aids for gamers who've bought all kinds of GURPS books -- especially Magic -- and just want to see a subset of that stuff gathered in one place to help them kick off a classic campaign type. It isn't meant as a book replacement, a one-volume game, or anything like that.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Likewise, I'm very disappointed to see that there aren't any pre-built advantages for Monks and Bards; instead, players must build them themselves, then do the arithmetic, and then submit the final advantage builds to the GM to see if he approves them.

... dude, what planet are you from, and did they send you the complete PDF? They have full powers for both martial artists and bards, in DF1. They're right next to the Divine and Druidic powers, in the powers chapter.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Oh, and by the way, where are the "racial" templates? And optional "racial" advantages? GURPS Dungeon Fantasy badly needs a splatbook.

It's a series of 32 page books. It doesn't "need" splatbooks, it IS splatbooks, and they're churning out one a month. Keep yer pants on, they're coming next week, or the week after at the latest. 37 racial templates enough to keep you from freaking out?

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Sure, but the two Dungeon Fantasy books don't replace Magic in any way, or even the pertient parts of Martial Arts.

The point of DF isn't to make you not buy Martial Arts, but remain open to that sourcebook if you want or need it for enhancing your GURPS game. In the same way DF, being GURPS + assumptions, remains open to other sourcebooks as Dragons, Fantasy or Thaumatology. Or any other.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'd much have preferred to see a version of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy that did away with spells, and handled everything with Advantages. Even if it meant that the core book would be 64 pages instead of 32 pages, and cost 40%-60% more. (...)
That would have made it possible to run Dungeon Fantasy campaigns without needing to own GURPS Magic or even needing to reference the few spells that are in the GURPS core books.

I see things differently. Some people seems desperate for throwing away Magic, thinking Powers completely render that approach old or useless. But the future Thaumatology is going to make use of Magic material, I think enhancing it.

So, DF using Magic material for some things and Powers for others isn't but coherent with the GURPS line as a whole.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Oh, and by the way, where are the "racial" templates? And optional "racial" advantages? GURPS Dungeon Fantasy badly needs a splatbook.

(Also include "Bane"-type weapons in the splatbook. They're very much a part of the dungeon fantasy genre, and IIRC they exist in GURPS Magic as Enchantments already, so leaving them out of the DF core looks strange.)

I agree with this, and the answer will be (the next week I guess) DF 3.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

It really is a big mistake to not distinguish between historical supplements and rules distillations.

I agree about the differences between historical supplements and DF, but still DF isn't only a "mere" exercise of rules distillation. There are creativity, too.

I'm quite happy with the work of Sean here.

Cheers