What parts of Dungeon Fantasy would you use in a serious game

[blacksmith]

My self I would port the rules for different sized weapons and armor over.

[Bruno]

Most of the equipment that isn't under the special orders section would fit in just fine in my Banestorm campaign. I'm sure I could use many of the special orders items, too (The leather neck protection, for one, is something one of my players has been agitating for for a while)

I'd cheerfully steal the templates for use as "named character" bad guys or major allied/neutral NPCs - at least as inspiration.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sorting out of the spell lists into PI-required levels. While I may not use them exactly as written, if I have a game with Power Investiture I'll definitely be revisiting this section and pillaging it for ideas.

[kmunoz]

Dungeon Fantasy adds more of a "roleplaying GAME" feel (while standard GURPS is a "ROLEPLAYING game"). I'd use much of DF if I wanted to run a game-heavy campaign, even if it weren't a dungeon crawl campaign. The templates, for starters, are quite valuable. (I kicked myself when I saw the Bard power, wishing I'd thought of it, because it's simple and elegant.)

It's even possible to emulate "levels" in GURPS without completely breaking the realism. By having characters be members of rank-conferring organizations that require certain skills and abilities in order to proceed through the ranks, a GM can set up a series of "stacking" lenses for the base template. For example: novice, apprentice, journeyman, master, leader. To gain a rank in the organization a character would have to spend points on specific skills, advantages, powers and (possibly) spells, encouraging the player to save up CP and spend them appropriately. To make the feeling of "ding! I leveled up!" even more prominent, you could just eliminate the standard GURPS training/studying requirements, and let the character spend the necessary CP all at once, in an instant, once s/he has enough to go up a rank.

[kmunoz]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sorting out of the spell lists into PI-required levels. While I may not use them exactly as written, if I have a game with Power Investiture I'll definitely be revisiting this section and pillaging it for ideas.

I like this, too, although I'm still a bit twitchy about the idea of eliminating prerequisites for clerics/priests. I handle divine magic differently: the prerequisites are all there, but divine spells are "aspected" (can only be used on "friends" or "enemies" of the deity, depending on the type of spell it is, but rarely on both). As a trade-off, divine spells are one column "easier" - a Hard spell is Average, and a Very Hard spell is Hard. A cleric can potentially have both the regular and aspected versions of a spell (if the deity allows it), but they are separate spells and require separate CP expenditures. All of this in addition to PI and the various requirements the deity imposes.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by kmunoz

I like this, too, although I'm still a bit twitchy about the idea of eliminating prerequisites for clerics/priests.

Prerequisites are only one way to balance access to spells. DF doesn't actually eliminate the prerequisites, note - it actually replaces them with required levels of Power Investiture. This can actually be a more potent form of control on players, if you don't allow them to buy PI willy nilly.

Obviously DF basically does let you buy PI willy nilly, but in a more serious game I would have "time in grade" restrictions, required "displays of piety", minimum number of "charitable works", successful completion of god-given quests, or some other system of requirements to fulfill before acquiring more PI. If nothing else, a mundane series of exams and interviewing, represented by simple tests or Regular Contests of Theology, Public Speaking, Writing, History (our religion), and/or some other skills.

[kmunoz]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Prerequisites are only one way to balance access to spells. DF doesn't actually eliminate the prerequisites, note - it actually replaces them with required levels of Power Investiture. This can actually be a more potent form of control on players, if you don't allow them to buy PI willy nilly.

Obviously DF basically does let you buy PI willy nilly, but in a more serious game I would have "time in grade" restrictions, required "displays of piety", minimum number of "charitable works", successful completion of god-given quests, or some other system of requirements to fulfill before acquiring more PI. If nothing else, a mundane series of exams and interviewing, represented by simple tests or Regular Contests of Theology, Public Speaking, Writing, History (our religion), and/or some other skills.

Not having compared Magic 4e with DF yet, I can't say for sure, but my assumption was that the PI lists simply indicated which spells required what level of Magery (converted to PI). (If I'm wrong, then ignore the rest of this...) So the restrictions are there, yes, but they are only a partial selection of the restrictions normally assigned to each spell. The "time in grade" restrictions you describe are good, but I should think they'd apply to Magery as well, which makes the PI lists still significantly less restrictive than the standard spell prereq system.

IMO, the magic system itself (for divine and mana-based magic both) should be balanced without reference to other disads that *might* be applicable for a given character. So while one could argue that Duty and other disads or conditions make a divine spellcaster just as restricted as a normal mage, that doesn't help the magic system's internal balance. A mage could have the same restrictions (outside the magic system), and then would be at a disadvantage relative to his cleric brother, who has no magic system prereqs other than PI.

[kmunoz]

This reminds me of a question I've been pondering. Magery has a One College Only limitation available. What would be the best way to extrapolate this out to Two Colleges Only, etc.?

What I'm thinking of is a type of mage who starts with access only to one college, then as s/he progresses in knowledge gains access to others (by buying more "types" of Magery). I could deal with this without rules by simply limiting the types of magical knowledge that are available in the world, I suppose, but I like making things difficult for myself.

[Hai-Etlik]

Originally Posted by kmunoz

Not having compared Magic 4e with DF yet, I can't say for sure, but my assumption was that the PI lists simply indicated which spells required what level of Magery (converted to PI). (If I'm wrong, then ignore the rest of this...) So the restrictions are there, yes, but they are only a partial selection of the restrictions normally assigned to each spell. The "time in grade" restrictions you describe are good, but I should think they'd apply to Magery as well, which makes the PI lists still significantly less restrictive than the standard spell prereq system.

The DF:A list is not just the standard Magery requirement. Standard magic has most spells not requiring any Magery and the absolute highest requirement being Magery 3. As opposed to PI 1 for only about 1/5 of a drastically reduced spell list in DF:A.

[kmunoz]

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik

The DF:A list is not just the standard Magery requirement. Standard magic has most spells not requiring any Magery and the absolute highest requirement being Magery 3. As opposed to PI 1 for only about 1/5 of a drastically reduced spell list in DF:A.

Oh, good point! That'll teach me to skim. Thanks, I'm liking that list a lot more now.

[Fred Brackin]

The equipment rules. I've seldom seen a template I liked and DF:A is no exception.

Fred Brackin