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#1 |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Using the spaceship design rules in GURPS Spaceships, without superscience, what is the cheapest way to provide a shuttle service between the ground and low Earth orbit, at TL 9? At TL 10? At TL 11?
Ground rules:
What is the most cost-effective ground-to-orbit lighter you can build at each TL, without superscience? How are things different on a backwoods colony planet where there is only a liner in orbit 10% of the time, and where there is only one spaceport? Last edited by Chansith; 01-06-2008 at 05:47 AM. Reason: corrected error in Rule 14 |
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#2 |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
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By the way: is there any comment on the ground rules as set out?
How do wings affect Hnd? |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Space lifts are easily TL 9, given an adequately motivated and organized civilization.
A launch loop might be even cheaper than that, though. |
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#5 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
• Space lifts are no good for getting to LEO: you can't get off below GEO. And it takes a long time to get to GEO, which might make space lifts unattractive to passengers. Rotorvators, bolo space stations, and even space fountains sound more practical to me. • Space lifts eat up an awful lot of valuable territory in orbit, besides which they are mind-bogglingly capital-intense, and a very considerable engineering challenge. A beanstalk is equivalent to a suspension bridge with a 24,000-mile span. There might be a long wait before we get one built. We are much closer to building an orbital lighter. It is not clear to me that a space lift will ever be economic: operating costs are much lower than shuttles, but amortisation is through the roof, and there might be prohibitive rental costs on orbital territory. • Until we design the most cost-effective orbital lighter we don't know what price the space lift will have to compete with. I won't be surprised if at higher TLs lighters (perhaps fusion powered) provide a trip to LEO that is cheaper than a space lift ticket to GEO. • This design exercise will give us a basic approach to the more general problem of building lighters for trips from ground to low orbit on habitable planets. This will be important in the case of comparatively low-population colony worlds, which don't generate enough traffic to amortise a minimum-scale beanstalk. |
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#6 |
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"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Laser Launch system is the most cost effective(at low TLs), I believe, but that was in THS, not Spaceships.
Also, by highly radioactiv,e do you mean no orion drives, or no saltwater nuke drives? Orion drives are not that hazardous in terms of fall-out |
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#7 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
I am, obviously, considering commercial operations: thousands of passengers per day. Regulators would be concerned with cumulative emissions over myriads of launches, plus of course the possible use of the bombs as bombs. Have you thought about Daedalus? Last edited by Chansith; 12-31-2007 at 06:58 PM. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shropshire, uk
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The trouble with any sort of pulse system especialy the Daedalus fusion pulse system is the expense of the fuel, I don't currently own spaceships but I suspect that this will prove to be the killer for any sort of Orion/ Daedalus pulse engine in regular service. As the rules of the competion, if not the build system, appear preclude hybrid vehicles such as the Helios designs (two stage vehicles using a chemical first stage and a nuclear second stage) at least at TL 9, nuclear systems may not be all that credible for low tech levels.
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#9 | |||
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Quote:
The PDF is US$9.95, plus which printing and binding my copy cost me about US$4.90. I consider it to have been worth every penny. Quote:
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#10 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Shropshire, uk
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The PDF is something I am going to get as of payday (the joys of being a student again- only so many hours a week you are physicaly able to work work etc). My coment about the Helios design (nominaly TL 7- at least when it was first proposed) being useless was not about staging but the emmisions problem, using the chemical stage to reach the stratosphere and then using a nuclear sustainer to finish the job seams to violate rule 1 quite thouroughly. Even a closed cycle engine is probably a dead end because of its low thrust, without TL 10+ fusion systems it isn't going to fly.
As of when I get a copy I will try runing up stats for one of the Helios RLV designs using TL 9 materials and components while it will almost certainly not be legal under the competition rules (or sane for that matter) it may provide a useful reference. |
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