Things to do in Heaven when you're dead

[cptbutton]

I've been musing on a hypothetical In Nomine Anime game I'd run if I had, like, actual players. I got to wondering what do the saved souls (and angels) do all day in Lower Heaven?

I assume the harps on clouds and sitting at the foot of the throne singing praises stuff is all in the Upper Heavens.


Thought 1: Clubs and Support Groups
Since IN Canon says that pretty much anyone who achieves their Destiny goes to Heaven, there are going to be a lot of people there who didn't expect to be. They need help to adjust.

The Virtuous Pagans Bewilderment Support Group (VPBSG) helps those members of various non-monotheistic religions who find themselves in Heaven.

Adventure Seed: Some of the VP decide that there has been a mistake, and are determined to get to the afterlife they expected. In principle this is simple, just go to Blandine's tower, take the stairs down to the Ethereal Plane, and then hike out into the Far Marches. In practice, there will be difficulties.

The Former Atheists Reassessment Society (FARS) (whose membership secretary asks me to remind everybody that a deathbed conversion precludes membership). Members are frequently found poking around in odd corners of Lower Heaven "looking for the matte lines".

Thought 2: Running the divine bureaucracy.

Technically, God doesn't see the fall of every sparrow, that has been delegated to the Sparrow Division of the Passerine Mortality Department.

Thought 3: Celestial Grunts

The Celestials that IN usually deals with are like spys, diplomats, and special operations forces. Are there ordinary troops, i.e. the angelic or demonic equivalent of an infantry rifleman? Presumably they spend most of their time training for Armageddon.

[Methariel]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Thought 3: Celestial Grunts

The Celestials that IN usually deals with are like spys, diplomats, and special operations forces. Are there ordinary troops, i.e. the angelic or demonic equivalent of an infantry rifleman? Presumably they spend most of their time training for Armageddon.

Well, as usual I'm lacking time, so I'll just try to give a short answer to topic no. 3:

There are your "ordinary riflemen" in Heaven: Michael's and Laurence's troops, as well as part of David's angels, I think.
Laurence's might be found in the Eternal City often (on guard (or beaureaucratic) duty or doing some Christian angel-things like looking majestically or merciful), but I think they do at least once per "day" go to the Groves and receive training in swordplay, gunfighting etc.
Michael's angels do camp in the Groves. And there they're preparing for the Battle. Constantly. Always maneuvering, doing hand-to-hand (training) fights, practicing with all kinds of weapons ("I thought we already got these modified anti-tank-guns that Malakite of Jean was talking of? Did some of Janus' guys sneak into the armory or why aren't they there?" - "I was told Jean has scheduled them to be issued in...twenty years or so. Go on and use your ordinary bazooka." - I presume that there also are testing grounds for those weapons of War somewhere in the Groves, perhaps some divine equivalent to Bunker 666, although much, much safer to be employed at.) or taking care of their tools.
And I think David's angels practice some heavy brawling down in the Caverns.

I hope this was at least a bit helpful,

Methariel

[Sagitta]

Originally Posted by Methariel

There are your "ordinary riflemen" in Heaven: Michael's and Laurence's troops, as well as part of David's angels, I think.

David's riflemen are never issued with ammunition, of course, but boy you don't want to get on the wrong end of one of those bayonets.

[Blackwing]

I tend to think that the Blessed Souls in Heaven can do pretty much anything. They can continue their research (Jean, Yves), art (Eli, Yves), playing with kids (Christopher), gardening (Novalis), spelunking (David)...

Or they can take up new stuff that they didn't have the time for/weren't yet interested in/were denied while alive/were too embarassed to do/looked too time consuming/etc...

Writing circles, various art projects (role playing, and drink mixing are art forms, too!), and storytelling groups tend to be popular IMG's heaven but I'm probably showing my own bias there.

I'm sure there are thousands of eager people writing heavenly code or doing experiments in Jean's labs as well as talking with animals on the Savannah.

[Sagitta]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

The Former Atheists Reassessment Society (FARS) (whose membership secretary asks me to remind everybody that a deathbed conversion precludes membership). Members are frequently found poking around in odd corners of Lower Heaven "looking for the matte lines".

Arriving in Heaven is a huge culture shock for atheists, but an even bigger one for most adherents of monotheistic religions - although not nearly so big today as in centuries past. Discovering that your most certain gospel truths are no more than fiction is more traumatic than the other way round. How do devout Muslims, Catholics, Jehova's Witnesses and so on cope with the shock of finding Paradise overrun with heathens, heretics, atheists, idolators, backsliders, schismatics and apostates? Especially since some of their most conspicuously religious friends, relations and heroes are nowhere to be found? Toleration is not required to get to Heaven, but most people develop more of it once they find their former opponents are reasonable folks who speak the same language, not armed, aggressive aliens.

Many Blessed clerics have a full-time job re-educating the faithful in the revised tenets of their belief. In fact, the founders of several religions and sects remain in the lowest Heaven, both to enlighten their own followers and to convert any other Souls who may be interested. Even so, there are some skeptics who can't believe they are in Heaven, notwithstanding the pleasant surroundings and friendly winged figures flitting around. Clearly this is some kind of satanic temptation, to try to beguile them into abandoning their faith! Only Divine Logic can help these unfortunate cases.

[chris the cynic]

I can actually picture some atheists getting to IN Heaven and saying, "I was right."

I mean think of it. You spend your whole life saying there is no god. While people left and right tell you God is up in Heaven watching you say he isn't. Then one day you die and go to Heaven, bit of a shock, and have look around. Guess what? Not a God to be found.

What more convincing proof of the non-existence of God can there be than searching Heaven and finding that he isn't in attendance? Of course the final clinching proof won't come until you climb the ladder and show he isn't there either.

Angel: So now you see, you really were wrong.
Atheist: I was wrong about life after death, and Angels and Demons, I'll give you that. But not God.
Angel: What?!
Atheist: *Smiles* I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong. Show me God.
Angel: God isn't here, God is in the higher Heavens. *Points up* (or, conversely, "God is everywhere,")
Atheist: That's what the Greeks said about Zeus, is he God? (Or That's what the Hindu's said about Brahman, is Brahman God?)

[BillionSix]

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

Angel: So now you see, you really were wrong.
Atheist: I was wrong about life after death, and Angels and Demons, I'll give you that. But not God.
Angel: What?!
Atheist: *Smiles* I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong. Show me God.
Angel: God isn't here, God is in the higher Heavens. *Points up* (or, conversely, "God is everywhere,")
Atheist: That's what the Greeks said about Zeus, is he God? (Or That's what the Hindu's said about Brahman, is Brahman God?)

Michael: Um, I've met him. We had one on one conversations back in the old days, back when we were all creating things.
Athiest: No, you didn't.
Michael: Um, yes. I am a Seraph and can't lie. In fact, it's impossible for anyone to lie in Heaven. There are people here who have actual memories of God, and can tell you all about Him.
Athiest: Well, they are delusional. They remember things wrong, because they are stupid. I am smart and they are stupid.
Michael: Look. I am speaking the angelic language. You can hear the truth of my words, so listen: God. Is. Real.... I. Have. Met. Him....
Athiest: LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOULALALALA!!!!!

Brian

[chris the cynic]

Originally Posted by BillionSix

Michael: Um, I've met him. We had one on one conversations back in the old days, back when we were all creating things.
Athiest: No, you didn't.
Michael: Um, yes. I am a Seraph and can't lie. In fact, it's impossible for anyone to lie in Heaven. There are people here who have actual memories of God, and can tell you all about Him.
Athiest: Well, they are delusional. They remember things wrong, because they are stupid. I am smart and they are stupid.
Michael: Look. I am speaking the angelic language. You can hear the truth of my words, so listen: God. Is. Real.... I. Have. Met. Him....
Athiest: LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOULALALALA!!!!!

Would you put that past some people?

Remember, a total inability to accept reality does not prevent one from being either noble or selfless so someone who can't accept reality could get into IN Heaven (or actual Heaven if my beliefs are right.)

Besides that the arguments against God could still apply in a Heaven where God was lacking. There are a lot of atheists around who do not claim that people who claim to have met God are being dishonest, they claim they're delusional. So they get to Heaven and there's no God in evidence, just things that say they've met God. What would the staunch atheist think?

Why not, "If Gabriel can be unhinged Michael can be too"?
If presented with the conversation you gave why not, "I never accused you of lying; the fact you thought I did just serves as evidence for you being delusional."

If you think about it in IN Heaven the only evidence for God would be the memories of some, the testimony of many, and that which he is said to have created.

On Earth, right here and now, the evidence for God is the memories of some, the testimony of many, and that which he is said to have created.

Many of the same arguments could apply.

I never thought about it before, but it suddenly seems like it would be very hard to convince an Atheist in IN Heaven that there is a God. Especially when you've got the pagan "gods" providing plausible seeming alternatives ... er, heresies.

Why not assign unfavored servitors the duty of convincing them there is a God?

[BillionSix]

Well, I remember reading something that "disadvantages" like Greedy and Lustful are very hard to let go on in Heaven, especially with angelic help and guidance. I could see that a delusion would act similarly. And, however things are in the really real world, athiesm is false in In Nomine. Most athiests would have some degree of "Oops. I was wrong. My bad." Maybe they would be shocked to the core, and or maybe they would just have a chuckle about it.
But if you die, and wake up in Heaven, and see angels, then holding on to Athiesm becomes an actual delusion. It becomes "I can't admit I was wrong no matter what" level pride. And yes, some people would have that level of pride. We have all met people who wouldn't admit to being wrong about the silliest of things, and would dig themselves in deeper and deeper, making themselves look dumber by the second. But presumably, a blessed soul in Heaven could let go of that kind of pride.

Brian

[chris the cynic]

Originally Posted by BillionSix

But presumably, a blessed soul in Heaven could let go of that kind of pride.

One would hope.