GURPS does dungeon crawl?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Bruno

ANd of course "dungeons" don't have to be underground. Anywhere you can restrict the players choice of direction of travel (and usually line of sight/line of fire but there are fun things to do with that) is a dungeon.

See for example the discussion of adventure types in Chapter 8 of GURPS Fantasy, where the dungeon crawl, characterized in almost exactly those terms, is the first listed adventure type. Which I suppose ought to count as an official endorsement of using GURPS for dungeon fantasy, by the way.

Bill Stoddard

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

There really needs to be an official GURPS 240-page hardback on this. I'd pitch it if I had any expectation I'd have the time to write it.

But I don't.

But GURPS really needs it. And it would sell.

I'd love to write it. Unfortunately, the company doesn't like to fund staff writing, and I have other writers' books to edit. I doubt I'll ever get the chance. :(

[ham2anv]

I don't hold much hope, but I've sent in a query letter on this very topic. I figure I have to give it a shot. It's such a great idea.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Yes, exactly! The idea that monsters and loot are extraneous would kill the book.

*blink* Just the idea?? ...
Whoa... I'm either a near-pervasive power, or plain political persuader ('demigoddery' or demagoguery*)... Just Kidding! :)

My thought was that including more than a few pages devoted to statting such things seems contrary to the general marketing philosophy shown in the books published so far. Especially monsters, which I would think would be constrained by the prospect of a new edition of Bestiary. Loot might be more open to expansion in such a book, but still... the discussed Low/Fantasy-Tech would subsume a lot of the pertinent material, wouldn't it?

I can see filling 240 pages easy. It's a big topic, and if it is done with a real love of the game type - not "well, if you REALLY want to be racially motivated thugs murdering dungeon-dwelling creatures for their money, I guess we'll help" but "this is why this is fun and cool" - it'll sell widely.

It is a cool idea... and, shoot, I'll buy it if it comes out ;) I'm a bit skeptical of the ease of filling a standard size book on the subject, but I'm willing to believe that a talented and driven writer might pull it off.

* Sorry Mr. Mencken... I didn't see you standing there :(

[PK]

I think this is a very good idea for a sourcebook, but I'm more than a bit skeptical of this either deserving or justifying 240 pages. As Sean has said, the rules you'd need are already totally covered in the Basic Set, just split up a bit. So this would be a pure advice/genre book for a "genre" that's about as shallow as they come. I'd expect it to come in closer to 40-60 pages. This sounds like an e23 product to me... and one that I'd readily buy if done well.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

My thought was that including more than a few pages devoted to statting such things seems contrary to the general marketing philosophy shown in the books published so far. Especially monsters, which I would think would be constrained by the prospect of a new edition of Bestiary.

I was personally thinking more along the lines of discussing monsters, their role in dungeons, how a GM can use "trash mobs" (simple creatures with no significant treasure) and/or random encounters to control the pace of the adventurers progress, creating "theme" or "ecology" dungeons, things like that.

Designing combat oriented encounters is another thing - how to structure them, crowd control, designing encounters based on party capabilities, etc.

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Loot might be more open to expansion in such a book, but still... the discussed Low/Fantasy-Tech would subsume a lot of the pertinent material, wouldn't it?

There's meta stuff you can discuss about loot too. Why are you giving out loot at all, what form (portable, vs non portable) and why to use one or the other, how much loot vs how much expenses are the players going through (Remember, dungeon crawls are resource management games!) and that ratio controls how quickly they progress towards a certain goal, GIVING the players goals to save up for and adjusting progression accordingly...

An example from World of Warcraft, for I am a total addict. You can learn to ride a very fast flying mount (a gryphon, a small chimera, a small dragon, etc) but the only NPCs that will teach you the skill want to charge you a ridiculous amount of money for the training (5000 gold, which is an ENORMOUS amount of money). However, shortly after introducing this apparently impossible-to-achieve goal they also introduced some new ways of earning money to bring it within reach if you spent about half an hour a day for a few months on saving up for it.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I think this is a very good idea for a sourcebook, but I'm more than a bit skeptical of this either deserving or justifying 240 pages. As Sean has said, the rules you'd need are already totally covered in the Basic Set, just split up a bit. So this would be a pure advice/genre book for a "genre" that's about as shallow as they come. I'd expect it to come in closer to 40-60 pages. This sounds like an e23 product to me... and one that I'd readily buy if done well.

I'd love to see them TRY to fill all 240 pages on it. You can cover a shallow topic broadly, or get into a lot of the really interesting meta levels.

But I suppose I should remind myself that I'm a WoW Raider. I essentially live and breathe dungeons; dungeon design, dungeon theory, dungeon tactics. I am by definition In The Minority.

[Kromm]

Heh, I have an outline for 240 pages on my HD. It's most of 5,000 words, which is a big outline. Looking at it, my worry would be not bloating to 256 pages . . .

[Pesterfield]

but I think there are at least a few instances of modern humans not only moving into cave systems, but altering them and expanding on them (building houses over the fronts, leveling floors, etc).

I've heard of that too, but can't recall where. Somewhere in the MidEast I think, basically a whole village underground.

[The Whiner Knight]

Weren't Masada and other mountain fastnesses backed up by cave systems?

Kind of like a Helm's Deep in the desert, surrounded by Roman legions, and with a grimmer outcome ....

TWK