Supers character question.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'd probably put a 250-350 point game as "super normals" rather than "normal supers." A 300 point character will be demonstrably human. Even with ST30 for 200pts, with DX12, HT12 and some cool advantages he's going to have vulnerabilies that regular people can deal with.

It depends on what kind of powers you want. I found it possible to build a template for an invisible sneaker on 250 points, and likewise a rubberman. The supers who need more points are the combat specialists, who need to be around 500 to fight normal men, and at least 1,000 to fight vehicles. I'd guess that if you want to do the X-men or the Legion, a 750-point base would get you into the ballpark.

Bill Stoddard

[t@nya]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It depends on what kind of powers you want. I found it possible to build a template for an invisible sneaker on 250 points, and likewise a rubberman. The supers who need more points are the combat specialists, who need to be around 500 to fight normal men, and at least 1,000 to fight vehicles. I'd guess that if you want to do the X-men or the Legion, a 750-point base would get you into the ballpark.

Bill Stoddard

How often is the FAQ updated? I sent in a question I thought should be addressed, and was wondering how long it takes for suggestions to be assessed.

[Mehmet]

Well, to throw 4000 lbs things around, you have to have a ST equivalent of 142. If it is lifting ST and you have 10 normal ST, you'll end up throwing it to your foot.

If you have straight 142 ST, well, it will be 1320 CP's minus any super or SM discounts you may have.

Best bet here, I guess, would be having a ST around 30+ and some level of Super Effort modified Lifting ST which still would end up very expensive and if you take many disadvantages and lots of limitations to your super ST you might just do it.

Let's say our brick is 3 meters tall (SM+1) and have Super Strength (that can be negated by Neg-o-rays, very expensive military grade weapons and Power negation abilities of some of the other supers). This would spell -20% for super ST.

Let's have 20 levels of Striking ST [80] and 9 levels of Lifting ST [22] at a total CP cost of [102] (our HP is still 10) and lets buy 11 levels of Super Effort Lifting ST [132] (I use multiplicative modifiers).

This will give you a total ST of 30 at all times and lifting ST of 168 (18 base, +150 from Super Effort) at the cost of 1 FP per lift.

And you still have 250-234=16 CP's left without the disadvantages.

Edit: Calculation time!

We spend 1 FP and we have 168x168/5=5644 lbs of BL. our little car weighs 4000 lbs, let's say. We have a weight ratio of 0.7 which gives a DM of 0.7. We multiply this value by our base strength of 30 and we have a whopping 21 yards throw!! That is quite a bargain with those points I say :) Now, it seems so good, I must have made a mistake somewhere... Hmmmm...

Cheerio!

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mehmet

Let's have 20 levels of Striking ST [80] and 9 levels of Lifting ST [22] at a total CP cost of [102] (our HP is still 10) and lets buy 11 levels of Super Effort Lifting ST [132] (I use multiplicative modifiers).

This will give you a total ST of 30 at all times and lifting ST of 168 (18 base, +150 from Super Effort) at the cost of 1 FP per lift.

Actually, no, because split Lifting/Striking scores produce awkward results.

If you take ST 20 for 100 points, and then ST +10/+100 (Super, -10%; Super-Effort, +300%) for 390 points, you have effective ST 120 whenever you spend 1 FP. That gives you base lift of 2,880 lbs. and one-handed lift of 5,760 lbs., or two-handed lift of 23,040 lbs. Your one-handed throw has range 0.3 x 120 = 36 yards; your two-handed heave has range 0.08 x 120 = 9.6 yards. In the first case you inflict 13d; in the second you inflict 13d-13. Of course, you'll probably want some Damage Reduction to let you survive when the brick on the other side throws stuff back at you!

Bill Stoddard

[Mehmet]

Well, turns out, I did make an addition error (it should read "this will give you a total ST of 30 at all times and lifting ST of 169 (19 base, +150 from Super Effort) at the cost of 1 FP per lift" instead of "this will give you a total ST of 30 at all times and lifting ST of 168 (18 base, +150 from Super Effort) at the cost of 1 FP per lift") but I really can't see why do you say "no" - is it a "no, you're doing it wrong" or a "no, I don't think it is a good way to spend your CP's?

Cheerio!

[naloth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Actually, no, because split Lifting/Striking scores produce awkward results.

Agreed... The current rules make economical bricks very complicated.

If you take ST 20 for 100 points, and then ST +10/+100 (Super, -10%; Super-Effort, +300%) for 390 points, you have effective ST 120 whenever you spend 1 FP.

I presume that Super-Effort +300% is going to be covered in your upcoming edition. 1 fatigue per minute of use and it doesn't increase your HP?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mehmet

but I really can't see why do you say "no" - is it a "no, you're doing it wrong" or a "no, I don't think it is a good way to spend your CP's?

It's "No, you can't do that." Thirty-odd playtesters, Kromm, and I kicked around a whole series of variants on applying Lifting ST or Striking ST to throwing separately, and we could not come up with a way to do it that didn't produce stupid results. So we finally decided that the simplest answer was not to do it. Lifting ST alone lets you pick up something heavy and drop it; Striking ST alone lets you throw a normal weight hard enough to hurt—and neither does anything for your range. If you want range, take Lifting ST+Striking ST, or take overall ST, or take Super Throw (which will appear in GURPS Supers).

This isn't an argument from authority; it's crede experto. I worked a lot of examples with different Lifting and Striking ST interpreted different ways, and they always produce results that were neither physically believable nor properly comic-bookish. So we decided not to allow any of them.

Bill Stoddard

[lordbrutish]

No one here has mentioned one option I find palatable:

To pick heavy stuff up, buy Lifting ST with Super Effort (per Powers).

To do a lot of damage throwing stuff, buy it as an Innate Attack.

[Mehmet]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's "No, you can't do that." Thirty-odd playtesters, Kromm, and I kicked around a whole series of variants on applying Lifting ST or Striking ST to throwing separately, and we could not come up with a way to do it that didn't produce stupid results. So we finally decided that the simplest answer was not to do it. Lifting ST alone lets you pick up something heavy and drop it; Striking ST alone lets you throw a normal weight hard enough to hurt—and neither does anything for your range. If you want range, take Lifting ST+Striking ST, or take overall ST, or take Super Throw (which will appear in GURPS Supers).

This isn't an argument from authority; it's crede experto. I worked a lot of examples with different Lifting and Striking ST interpreted different ways, and they always produce results that were neither physically believable nor properly comic-bookish. So we decided not to allow any of them.

Bill Stoddard

OK, I was just going with the FAQ. So, if the new approach is as you describe it, could you answer me this;

I have base ST 10 and I buy +20 HP, + 20 Striking ST (SST) and + 9 Lifting ST (LST) and +11 LST with Super-effort (SELST). (A)

This is not in anyway different than buying +9 ST, +11 HP, +11 striking ST and +11 SELST. (B)

When I spend 1 FP I have +150 Lifting ST (for one lift) instead of that 11 SELST. So, I have lifting ST of 169.

Do I use this lifting ST in BL calculation for the purpose of calculating weight ratio?

If so I have a BL of 5712 and this gives me WR of 0.7 for an object weighing 4000 lbs. which has DM of 0.7 (for weight ratio of 0.75).

If I don't use striking ST and just use base ST, (A) says I throw it 7 yards (0.7 * 10) away while (B) says I throw it 13.3 (0.7 * 19) yards away.

If I use SST, these become (A) = (B) = 21 yards.

Which one is correct, if any? If none of them are correct could you please explain the correct approach? I really don't get it, that's why I'm asking...

Cheerio!

[Rowan]

Well.. yes, I mean to make the super with the +400% enchancement on lifting ST.. though not being able to 'throw' it now without another ST type troubles me. When is this Supers book supposed to come out? I'd like to run this game soon, I looked on the upcoming releases page and ahead, but didn't see a listing for it? What's I miss? =?