POD and services like LULU (aka: LULU Economics)

[KDLadage]

Over in this thread, I asked about the logistics of using a service like LULU to handle the print-on-demand services from Steve Jackson Games. Steve Jackson posted:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Perhaps those who are interested in debating the economics of third-party POD publishers could start a thread elsewhere? There is no chance that SJ Games will be using such services for now.

OK... so here it is. I do not want to disrupt things in the other thread, and it was never my intent to be so. I happen to love this company and trust those in it. But every concern I have had on this topic has (seemingly) been ignored. So I would like to know:

Whyis it that, as Steve Jackson puts it, There is no chance that SJ Games will be using such services for now?

[Shadlyn]

Originally Posted by KDLadage

Whyis it that, as Steve Jackson puts it, There is no chance that SJ Games will be using such services for now?

a) Most of the companies that offer them are more expensive. Whether they attribute the expense to that fact or not.

b) We prefer to have direct control over our sales whenever possible. At least that way our mistakes are our mistakes, and our reputation is based on what we ourselves have done.

c) We prefer the price break that we often get when we print more than one book at a time.

Mostly, that's it. Note, that B carries a lot of weight, for reasons which really aren't so much financial as reputation and control.

There might be others, but I know that these have mattered on more than one occasion.

[KDLadage]

A, to a point, I can see. Sure, some may feel that the book is too expensive in printed form if you go through a service like LULU. But to be honest, as a customer, I would rather pay a slight premium than not have the option of a printed version of the book at all.

B is certainly a valid concern. If you feel that the customer would blame SJGames for a mistake made by LULU -- then sure, this is increadibly valid. I am just not so sure I would blame SJGames for a problem that took place with LULU -- any more than I blamed SJGames for the fact that the pages of my initial purchase of the Basic Set were not as strong as they could have been.

C I do not follow at all. The price break that you get (ie: that Steve Jackson Games gets) from LULU is 100%. I, as the customer pay that stuff. Not you. So I am not sure I get this one either.

Still... thanks for the answers. I appreciate it.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by KDLadage

B is certainly a valid concern. If you feel that the customer would blame SJGames for a mistake made by LULU -- then sure, this is increadibly valid. I am just not so sure I would blame SJGames for a problem that took place with LULU -- any more than I blamed SJGames for the fact that the pages of my initial purchase of the Basic Set were not as strong as they could have been.

I recomed you do a search on the Complates regarding SJGames products avialiblity though Amazon. a lot of people blamed SJGames for Amazon's lack lusterd responce time in aquaring say GURPS Powers.

Originally Posted by KDLadage

C I do not follow at all. The price break that you get (ie: that Steve Jackson Games gets) from LULU is 100%. I, as the customer pay that stuff. Not you. So I am not sure I get this one either.

becuase people would blamre Lulu for the Markup but blame SJGames for the marup...based on histry with Recommend retial price.

[Hex]

Originally Posted by KDLadage

A, to a point, I can see. Sure, some may feel that the book is too expensive in printed form if you go through a service like LULU. But to be honest, as a customer, I would rather pay a slight premium than not have the option of a printed version of the book at all.

I understand the quality control issue I understand the economics and the reasons for not using Lulu. But, I think that last part should be highlighted. It has been said a number of times that if a pdf does not sell all that well then a POD of that pdf will not be offered. I understand that under your current system that doesn't work. But, I am put out that I am one of those that do not want to buy a pdf...and to hear a book I may want will not be a POD is discouraging. So, why can't there be a compromise...that books that are not going to be published in your normal fashion but make it available through something like Lulu. You could put a disclaimer saying it will be somewhat more expensive and whatever else you feel is necessary.

I to would happily pay more to just get the book. I have no evidence that others would...but I suspect their are more than just me a KDladang that would buy it. This way it is a one at a time purchase and you wouldn't have to order a bunch at a time.

Just a thought.

Hex≈

[roguebfl]

Though for those that are willing to pay a priema to get a hardcopy, isn't that why the PDF lience allouse you to make a printout ? hence alloung you to go to a print shop and take the primeum on yourself?

[KDLadage]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Though for those that are willing to pay a priema to get a hardcopy, isn't that why the PDF lience allouse you to make a printout ? hence alloung you to go to a print shop and take the primeum on yourself?

The last two, obviously copyrighted, PDFs I have taken to Kinkos or where-ever have been, to put it mildly, a nightmare to get taken care of. They look at me like I am pirating the document, and on the first occasion, actually refused to do business with me.

This is why I want another avenue.

[Hex]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Though for those that are willing to pay a priema to get a hardcopy, isn't that why the PDF lience allouse you to make a printout ? hence alloung you to go to a print shop and take the primeum on yourself?

Nice thought Rogue but I am one who is VERY dissatisfied with that option...I prefer to have a professionally bound book over any kind of "hack" job that you might try on your own. Plus I find that this "print shop" method often ends up costing more than if I could get it through Lulu or the like. Even if it was more expensive at Lulu I'd buy from Lulu every time.

Hex≈

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Hex

So, why can't there be a compromise...that books that are not going to be published in your normal fashion but make it available through something like Lulu. You could put a disclaimer saying it will be somewhat more expensive and whatever else you feel is necessary.

We'd still be handing over quality control and customer service to someone else. That's not something we're going to do lightly, nor in the near future (if ever).

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Paul

We'd still be handing over quality control and customer service to someone else. That's not something we're going to do lightly, nor in the near future (if ever).

I'm honestly confused, how is that any different from a customer buying a PDF from you and then turning around and having LULU or some other POD company print the book for them?

The second you decided to sell PDFs you gave up the quality control and customer service of the books the customers are printing with your name on them. Whether that be my cheap and ratty looking double-sided laser print copy of GURPS Mysteries, legal punched with a metal clip, or someone's pink and polka-dotty copy of GURPS Lite?