Immune / 1/2 damage from fire

[DemonCorsair]

Not really sure how to implement this. Neither Resistant or damage resistance seems to fit very well, reistant not really applying and damage reistance being a set number.
What seems to be the best option is to take vunerability and reverse it so that instead of 2x damage its 1/2 but that doesn't help for full immunity.

Or am I just missing something?

[SleeperCell]

I had a similar concern about immunity to certain forms of attack. It seems the old 3rd Ed. advantage "invulnerability" has disapeared and I was told the only way to get a semblance of invulnerability was to take DR specified for the attack.
I'm not sure but I think designers may have something planed for the GURPS "Powers" book.....but it could be wishful thinking.

[ericbsmith]

"Immunity" to attacks and the old G3 "Invulnerability" are really just ways saying "I have enough DR to make these attacks not hurt me." Appartently it was decided that, if you want to simulate these, the best way is to just take a really high DR.

As for the 1/2 Damage from Fire, my suggestion would be to take as much DR against Fire as you think is necessary with a limitation along the lines of "Cannot stop more than 1/2 the incoming damage, -30%". Thus, if you have DR 20 against fire and you take 8 points of fire damage 4 points still gets through the DR. OTOH, if you take 50 points of damage the full DR applies (since it is less than 1/2 the incoming damage).

[LoganSaj]

But what about characters like Juggernaught who was supposedly completely immune to kinetic energy - from a paintball to a ICBM?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by LoganSaj

But what about characters like Juggernaught who was supposedly completely immune to kinetic energy - from a paintball to a ICBM?

Lots, and LOTS, and LOTS of Damage Resistance, with the appropriate Gadget Limitation(s). If he can take an ICBM then he has the equivelent of LOTS of DR, and costing it less (as 3e did with Invulnerability) is a bit of a point crock.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Lots, and LOTS, and LOTS of Damage Resistance, with the appropriate Gadget Limitation(s). If he can take an ICBM then he has the equivelent of LOTS of DR, and costing it less (as 3e did with Invulnerability) is a bit of a point crock.

OTOH, unlimited resistance to a limited class of damage isn't worth an unlimited number of points. The current way is just as screwed up point-wise -- and more limiting in terms of concepts which can be expressed -- as the old way. Unfortunately, there is probably no single point cost appropriate to an immunity, it probably depends on campaign context and power level.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

OTOH, unlimited resistance to a limited class of damage isn't worth an unlimited number of points. The current way is just as screwed up point-wise -- and more limiting in terms of concepts which can be expressed -- as the old way. Unfortunately, there is probably no single point cost appropriate to an immunity, it probably depends on campaign context and power level.

Oh, I don't disagree. As I said on another thread, not having Invulnerability leads to some really odd results, like beings with the meta-trait Body of Fire which can be killed if you build the fire hot enough.

One option is to house-rule the Invlunerability advantage back in, at least for Supers games, and use the Limited Defense modifiers; or even require the use of Limited Defense modifiers, meaning to be completely invulnerable would require buying Invulnerability multiple times).

[Digren Kaellise]

Alternatively, what about variable limitation on DR based on the liklihood of use?

For example, let's talk about a character that is supposed to be "immune" to all kinetic damage.

This character can buy DR against all forms of damage at 3 points each. The limitation "versus kinetic damage only" doesn't seem very limiting at first - I'd make it -10% or so. (I don't have my books handy, if SJG came up with something else so be it.)

However, that percentage limitation only applies to the first X points of DR. For example, if characters in the campaign are going to be shot at frequently, then DR 50 (to be immune to most bullets) costs 150 points - 10% = 135 points.

Now, how often will the character be hit in the chest with a supersonic plane? If the liklihood of this happening is very very low, then the limitation on subsequent levels of DR should be much higher. In this case, let's say the character buys another 100 DR at a -75% limitation. He now has DR 150 at a cost of (150 - 10%) + (300 - 75%) = 135 + 75 = 210. Again, he doesn't need that extra DR except in a few rare situations, so it costs less.

Now, how often will the character be stuck between two planets colliding, and have to rely solely on DR to not be crushed by the forces? The likihood of this is very very very very very low, so the limitation should be huge. Let's say this character buys another 1000 DR at a -98% limitation. He now has DR 1150 at a cost of (135) + (75) + (3000 - 98%) = (135) + (75) + (60) = 270 points.

Let's assume that the liklihood of something more rare happening in the campaign is infinitesimally small. Now, the limitation on additional DR is -100%. Thus, at this point, the character can buy infinite additional DR for zero points, making them effectively immune. Or, if you don't like absolutes, make the limitation for things outside the realm of the campaign -99.999%, allowing the character to buy another 1.67 million DR for a mere 50 points.

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So, that might not make immunity as cheap as 3e made it, but I think people who desire that just want something for nothing. It does though make it possible for a person to create their own characters based on the rules without the need for a GM, something that I enjoy as I rarely have a GM to refer to but want guidance when making my own characters for fun.

[LoganSaj]

Originally Posted by Digren Kaellise

Alternatively, what about variable limitation on DR based on the liklihood of use?

For example, let's talk about a character that is supposed to be "immune" to all kinetic damage.

This character can buy DR against all forms of damage at 3 points each. The limitation "versus kinetic damage only" doesn't seem very limiting at first - I'd make it -10% or so. (I don't have my books handy, if SJG came up with something else so be it.)

However, that percentage limitation only applies to the first X points of DR. For example, if characters in the campaign are going to be shot at frequently, then DR 50 (to be immune to most bullets) costs 150 points - 10% = 135 points.

Now, how often will the character be hit in the chest with a supersonic plane? If the liklihood of this happening is very very low, then the limitation on subsequent levels of DR should be much higher. In this case, let's say the character buys another 100 DR at a -75% limitation. He now has DR 150 at a cost of (150 - 10%) + (300 - 75%) = 135 + 75 = 210. Again, he doesn't need that extra DR except in a few rare situations, so it costs less.

Now, how often will the character be stuck between two planets colliding, and have to rely solely on DR to not be crushed by the forces? The likihood of this is very very very very very low, so the limitation should be huge. Let's say this character buys another 1000 DR at a -98% limitation. He now has DR 1150 at a cost of (135) + (75) + (3000 - 98%) = (135) + (75) + (60) = 270 points.

Let's assume that the liklihood of something more rare happening in the campaign is infinitesimally small. Now, the limitation on additional DR is -100%. Thus, at this point, the character can buy infinite additional DR for zero points, making them effectively immune. Or, if you don't like absolutes, make the limitation for things outside the realm of the campaign -99.999%, allowing the character to buy another 1.67 million DR for a mere 50 points.

---------------------

So, that might not make immunity as cheap as 3e made it, but I think people who desire that just want something for nothing. It does though make it possible for a person to create their own characters based on the rules without the need for a GM, something that I enjoy as I rarely have a GM to refer to but want guidance when making my own characters for fun.

Sounds like an interesting solution. The only problem with this, of course, is that it breaks the -80% limitation maximum rule.

[TJA]

For several traits, we need exponential value for logarithmic cost and levels.

BTW. the energy of colliding planets would need realy LOTS of DR ;-)

Better way to handle this could be "Kinetic Energy Resistance, Level 100 (1000p)" with the effect of reducing damage from kinetic energy to - for example - 1 divided by (sqrt(2)^100) or something like this.

Would also suite Superman and the like!

sqrt(2)^100 is 1,125,899,906,842,631.8 - so maybe adequat for colliding planets ;-)