[Banestorm] Underground Libertarians

[Jürgen Hubert]

Inspired by a recent thread:

Let's say you are an Underground Libertarian on Yrth (either a recent Banestorm victim or someone who found some heretical books on the subject) and want to establish a free market and/or democratic society somewhere on Ytarria. Let's assume that you are highly competent in your fields of expertise.

How would you set out to achive that?

[Qoltar]

Start in Cardiel or Tredroy - thats your best shot ...you confused Banestorm Victim.

- Edmund of Charlton

[DrTemp]

If you are 2 meters tall and strong, go to the Northlands, where you found your own democratic cult. That could really work.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Start in the cities. Merchants and tradesmen will have a grudge against the status quo and the wherewithall to do something about it. You'd want to help them get tax concessions from aristocratic overlords, which they'd be all in favor of, while also dismantling or at least reforming guilds (to remove artificial barriers to entry to the market), which will irk the guild masters but, depending on local conditions, probably gain the support of apprentices and journeymen.

One of your big problems, though, is that the vast majority of people will be against it. The ideas of trade as a zero-sum game and a class system will be difficult to shake. Though the merchants and trademen will welcome less regulation on themselves, they'll have a hard time understanding why they shouldn't impose regulations on others once they gain some power. More importantly, perhaps, the vast majority of the population won't care for the new economic arrangements you're proposing. The aristocracy will mostly be against it, since they've got the most to lose if things change, and if history is any guide, peasants are more likely to go proto-communist than proto-capitalist.

[dynaman]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Inspired by a recent thread:

Let's say you are an Underground Libertarian on Yrth (either a recent Banestorm victim or someone who found some heretical books on the subject) and want to establish a free market and/or democratic society somewhere on Ytarria. Let's assume that you are highly competent in your fields of expertise.

How would you set out to achive that?

Caithness - start with the Magna Carta there, the situation is just about ripe for it.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Let's say you are an Underground Libertarian on Yrth (either a recent Banestorm victim or someone who found some heretical books on the subject) and want to establish a free market and/or democratic society somewhere on Ytarria. Let's assume that you are highly competent in your fields of expertise.

Look up the Jesuits and offer them some imported ideas: The work of the Spanish Jesuit economists of the 16th and 17th centuries. They worked out the idea that the number of factors involved in determining the Just Price is so large that only God can know them all, and therefore the state should not try to legislate a just price, but let the market decide—and that's a big step toward self-regulating markets.

Work on selling freedom of religion; historically ending wars of religion and criminal penalties for religious dissent was the big first step toward libertarianism. You have the practice of religious tolerance in Tredroy; making a case for the theory would be useful.

[Akahige]

If your plot proves successful, please post the results so we'll have an idea how to try it in the real world, too. :)

[DoctorRomulus]

A good source I think is the Guardians of The Flame series by Joel Rosenberg about some colllege age gamers who are transported to a fantasy world and decide to do something about the tyranny and slavery on that world.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Look up the Jesuits and offer them some imported ideas: The work of the Spanish Jesuit economists of the 16th and 17th centuries. They worked out the idea that the number of factors involved in determining the Just Price is so large that only God can know them all, and therefore the state should not try to legislate a just price, but let the market decide—and that's a big step toward self-regulating markets.

Work on selling freedom of religion; historically ending wars of religion and criminal penalties for religious dissent was the big first step toward libertarianism. You have the practice of religious tolerance in Tredroy; making a case for the theory would be useful.

Too bad the Society of Jesus is going to be one of the largest obstacles for religous freedom. They also may be especially resistant to any any ideas that smack of the Enlightenment; as they may associate them with the Reformation.

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

Historically, various lordlings in the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th and 17th century set up free-trade non-persecution zones where religious dissenters flocked and could sell goods and services. The results were predictable - these towns and villages became cash cows. Then the lordling's feudal superior would muscle in and raise taxes and levy tariffs, then the Church would call for doctrinal purity, and the whole thing would fall apart. They typically lasted a decade or so, with maybe another decade before someone would try again.

If you're going to create such a thing, you'll need some way to shield it from the Church and the greedy feudal overlords. Perhaps a Royal Charter of some sort.