Building a cavalryman vs. building a charioteer

[Michael Thayne]

I have no doubt that, historically, there are many good reasons why cavalry replaced chariots. But as for the rules question, is the consensus that there are no circumstances where the Bow skill of someone in a chariot should be capped by Teamster? Even if they are using the Hands-Free Driving technique described in Low-Tech? This seems to be the letter of the rules—though the letter of the rules also potentially suggest melee weapon skills like Spear are another matter, even when not using the Hands-Free Driving technique?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I have no doubt that, historically, there are many good reasons why cavalry replaced chariots. But as for the rules question, is the consensus that there are no circumstances where the Bow skill of someone in a chariot should be capped by Teamster?

If you are trying to fire a bow while also guiding the chariot, it would be limited to teamster. However, I don't think any historical chariots had the capability for hands-free driving. Perhaps a fantasy creature with extra limbs, such as a coleopteran.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I have the impression, but I'm curious about the actual data, that the terrain on which a chariot can meaningfully fight is incredibly restricted. (As a wheeled vehicle with no elastic tires, shock absorbers, or stabilization other than the rider's body, and made of low-tech materials limiting the stresses it can withstand to boot.

Cavalry aren't exactly good in all terrains, but a horse can run through places where a cart can't.

Largely true, I believe, but with exceptions. Celtic (especially British) chariots seem to have been surprisingly effective on fairly bumpy terrain; Caesar reported having a bit of difficulty against them until he sorted out some tactics. Mind you, those were exceptionally light, were well built, and were used in the “battle taxi” role rather than as archery platforms — delivering small groups of elite warriors into key battlefield positions. (Homer would have recognised that idea.)

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

...Mind you, those were exceptionally light, were well built, and were used in the “battle taxi” role rather than as archery platforms — delivering small groups of elite warriors into key battlefield positions. (Homer would have recognised that idea.)

Not just Celtic Britain. Chariots in the Aegean and Middle East were also used this way - until the innovations of Cyrus.

"The method of managing a chariot employed of old at Troy and that in vogue among the Cyrenaeans even unto this day he [Cyrus] abolished; for in previous times people in Media and in Syria and in Arabia, and all the people in Asia used the chariot just as the Cyrenaeans now do. But it seemed to him that inasmuch as the best men were mounted on the chariots, that part which might have been the chief strength of the army acted only the part of skirmishers and did not contribute anything of importance to the victory… "
[Xenophon, Cyropaedia, 6.1.27-28]

The rest of the passage tells how Cyrus changed the javelin platform into the scythed-wheeled heavy chariot used for shock tactics.

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

But, in practice, they didn’t, usually.
I hate to have to tell you this, but that material is rather low on historical veracity. It was me spinning a joke about Car Wars out of Terry’s joke about Mad Max. I’m fond of it, but the day it starts getting quoted in discussions of historical chariots, I retire into a corner and rend my garments.

I was hoping someone deeper in the GURPS Vehicles at the time would shorthand the relevant rules. : )

I did some historical lookup and many ancient "racing" chariots" were open-frame so provided little protection but a larger war one with higher sides could provide Cover. of a warror's lower 50%.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Eric Funk

I was hoping someone deeper in the GURPS Vehicles at the time would shorthand the relevant rules. : )

I did some historical lookup and many ancient "racing" chariots" were open-frame so provided little protection but a larger war one with higher sides could provide Cover. of a warror's lower 50%.

Those ultra-light, open-framed chariots were used in battle as well. The Mittanians called them narkabtu qallu.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Eric Funk

Hmm, GURPS Egypts suggests two-man chariots were owned by low nobles. p.76)

Nobody owned chariots. The state had complete control of the chariot and metal industry and issued military gear as required. The nobility made up the chariot corps but they didn't own their equipment apart from a few individual pieces that the ruler gave them as a gift.