4e Revised

[rkbrown419]

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

Does IQ get cheaper?

It does if you follow the advice in Power Ups 9: Alternate Attributes.

[restlessgriffin]

Originally Posted by rkbrown419

It does if you follow the advice in Power Ups 9: Alternate Attributes.

Another reason for needed revision, rules are all over the place.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

Does IQ get cheaper?

Not in my preferred version. If you look at the pricing of Talents, 20 points is pretty cheap for 'just-IQ'. 10 points is very, very cheap - cheaper than e.g. Smooth Operator, which is mostly IQ skills. Why buy that talent if IQ is cheaper?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by TGLS

OK, in my 4e revised Slave Mentality would be renamed No Initiative and a little note would be attached to it saying it used to be called Slave Mentality.

I'd call it Low Volition, to make it clear that it's not a combat-related trait.

There should also be different levels of the disadvantage to model different levels of volition. For example, being able to take care of basic needs without being ordered to do so.

It could also be folded into Reprogrammable since the two traits tend to be linked.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by TGLS

OK, in my 4e revised Slave Mentality would be renamed No Initiative and a little note would be attached to it saying it used to be called Slave Mentality.

I've used the term "Drone Mentality" in my custom tables.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I've used the term "Drone Mentality" in my custom tables.

Girl Genius sourcebook calls it Hive Mentality.

That's simultaneously more PC and more descriptive.

It also makes a number of other tweaks that could be added to the standard rules.

[binn05]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I was originally writing this as a response to the 20th Anniversary of 4e thread; but I realized that I was getting off track.

I'd love to get a 4e Revised to commemorate the occasion, retroactively updating the core material with lessons learned over the last two decades while still (mostly) maintaining compatibility with existing 4e supplements: start with implementing Kromm's "Ten for Ten" from Pyramid #3/70, then apply minor tweaks such as changing Off-Hand Weapon Training from a Technique to a Perk, adjust the Spirit template to incorporate Mute (an oversight that 4e supplements have been trying to work around ever since), and possibly reorganizing existing material: Basic Set already provides alphabetical lists of Advantages, Disadvantages, and Skills; so how about incorporating Skill Categories directly into Characters and at least attempting to organize all Advantages and Disadvantages in the same manner that the various Social traits are organized? Lump Advantages, Disadvantages, Perks, Quirks, and Features together into a single section, but group them into thematically related Categories similar to Skill Categories.

In my wildest dreams, I'd split the Basic Set into at least three books, with the third book featuring Exotic and Superhuman Traits as well as the Magic and Psionics chapters and the Meta-Traits and Racial Templates from Characters (because, let's face it, Meta-Traits are nearly always used to provide components for Racial Templates rather than Professional Templates), and splitting the Creating Templates chapter in Campaigns between Characters (for advice on creating Professional Templates) and the new book (for creating Racial Templates). The idea would be for each of the three core books to be roughly 200 pages each, with the first book dealing with normal human characters, the second book dealing with inhuman and empowered characters, and the third book being mostly game rules and GM advice.

Thoughts?

I agree. A better presentation and reorganization of topics would help many new players.
Also, graphical improvements. Today's market wants shiny colors and glossy pages.
I would also update to 4E the solo adventure "A Night's Work" from 3E and include it in the basic set. It helped me a lot to understand GURPS during the 3E era.
At the end, a page with a link to Caravan to Ein Arris will help people GM and play a ready-to-go adventure. Include with it pre-gen 150-point characters.
Those two "modules" would teach newcomers basic combat and social interaction.

Create one more free adventure for the Dungeon Fantasy series to teach basic magic use and a little bit of powers. Also, include 150-point pre-gen characters.

I emphasize 150 points instead of DF 250 because it is easier to manage 150 points than 250, and they can still act within their chosen niche.

Link, in some way, all three "modules" with Infinite Worlds if it will continue to be GURPS default setting.

Also, each of your three books must come with 50 to 250-point iconic characters. And more down-to-earth ones, instead of the "I have no idea how to play this C3IR07-guy".

I would include a line of novels with iconic characters and settings, such as Dragonlance romances. But that is off-topic.

[Lord_Kjeran]

Is it sad that 20+ years later, I'm still running 3e? Lol

If there were a 4eR, however, I'd prefer a one book presentation. I realize that's not optimal, but the three book format sounds intriguing. I can see that...players, GM, Special.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by binn05

I agree. A better presentation and reorganization of topics would help many new players.
Also, graphical improvements. Today's market wants shiny colors and glossy pages.
I would also update to 4E the solo adventure "A Night's Work" from 3E and include it in the basic set. It helped me a lot to understand GURPS during the 3E era.
At the end, a page with a link to Caravan to Ein Arris will help people GM and play a ready-to-go adventure. Include with it pre-gen 150-point characters.
Those two "modules" would teach newcomers basic combat and social interaction.

Create one more free adventure for the Dungeon Fantasy series to teach basic magic use and a little bit of powers. Also, include 150-point pre-gen characters.

I emphasize 150 points instead of DF 250 because it is easier to manage 150 points than 250, and they can still act within their chosen niche.

Link, in some way, all three "modules" with Infinite Worlds if it will continue to be GURPS default setting.

Also, each of your three books must come with 50 to 250-point iconic characters. And more down-to-earth ones, instead of the "I have no idea how to play this C3IR07-guy".

I would include a line of novels with iconic characters and settings, such as Dragonlance romances. But that is off-topic.

Agreed about most of your suggestions. I'd put most of the 4e sample characters in the Special book, as they tend to rely on the Exotic and/or Supernatural tree Traits; I'd remove Dai's Warp and put him back as a generic TL3 thief; and I'd fill out the Characters book with interesting but "ordinary" characters suitable to Caravan to Ein Arris.

Actually, I'd provide four or five Professional Templates, each with the aim of being as generic and universal as possible, corresponding loosely to That Other Game's archetypes: a fighter, a rogue, a scholar, a medic, and an entertainer; then I'd have each of the Characters book's sample characters being an example of one of those Templates in use, plus one "freeform" sample character to illustrate that you don't need to use the Professional Templates if you don't want to.

Oh: I wouldn't include iconic characters in the Campaigns book,; I'd include All In a Night's Work and Caravan to Ein Arris instead..

[Donny Brook]

To save space, I would drop the original magic system from the core books in favor of a brief explanation of how to make Advantages work like 'magic'.

Also I would rationalze the way exotic skills (Power Blow etc.) work and work Imbuements into that.

It would also be nice to have a section combining core parts of How to Be a GURPS GM and Action 2.