Something I thought missing in effects

[Drakenbow]

Something I thought missing in effects were critters and spells with a greater range beyond fire. What I done with expanding the rules is altering some of the spells for one. Instead of having an IQ 8 Magic Fist spell, an IQ 12 Fireball spell, then an IQ 14 Lightning Bolt, and finally the IQ 18 Wizard's Wrath spell, I offer to my fellow gamers the option that these are labeled as Missile Spell I, II, III, and IV respectively and the choices (each requiring a point to learn) are: Magic Fist, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and also Frost Ball and Acid Splash.

I additionally offer alternatives to the Fire Hex spell as a Frost Hex, Acid Fog Hex, and Electric Hex. The damage and penalties all would be the same (2 points damage passing through, 4 points if stopping in the hex, and -2 DX).

I offer these as options so wizards or those fighters who opt for a spell or two have cold spells to use against fire based creatures.

Similarly, the flaming weapon can be any from fire, cold, acid, or electric.

Any thoughts about basic functionality of these alternative options as a home rule?

[TippetsTX]

What are your secondary effects for acid and frost missiles?

BTW, you can find similar ideas in this long-running thread...
https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...re#post2306651

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Drakenbow

Any thoughts about basic functionality of these alternative options as a home rule?

Other than the practical applications you mention, this is mostly an opportunity to create a richer, more flavorful game world. But, as TippetsTX suggests, the subtleties of different secondary effects will be key. Lightning, for instance, can destroy objects, and a Magic Fist can actuate trap triggers, so the choice of one over the other is important. For Creation spells, a Wall of Fog, for example, might offer somewhat diminished vision penalties compared to Shadow, but make up for it by dampening sound and giving some protection against fire.

It would be great to see an official list of additional spells that have benefited from the input of several sets of playtesters.

[timm meyers]

Originally Posted by Drakenbow

Something I thought missing in effects were critters and spells with a greater range beyond fire. What I done with expanding the rules is altering some of the spells for one. Instead of having an IQ 8 Magic Fist spell, an IQ 12 Fireball spell, then an IQ 14 Lightning Bolt, and finally the IQ 18 Wizard's Wrath spell, I offer to my fellow gamers the option that these are labeled as Missile Spell I, II, III, and IV respectively and the choices (each requiring a point to learn) are: Magic Fist, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and also Frost Ball and Acid Splash.

I additionally offer alternatives to the Fire Hex spell as a Frost Hex, Acid Fog Hex, and Electric Hex. The damage and penalties all would be the same (2 points damage passing through, 4 points if stopping in the hex, and -2 DX).

I offer these as options so wizards or those fighters who opt for a spell or two have cold spells to use against fire based creatures.

Similarly, the flaming weapon can be any from fire, cold, acid, or electric.

Any thoughts about basic functionality of these alternative options as a home rule?

Hopefully I am reading this correctly in that a PC can choose Missile Spell II at IQ 12 and choose at that point their preferred missile "type". This means they could know Magic Fist that does 1-1 damage (ie the IQ 12 fireball but as Magic Fist instead). This is basically saying you have 4 levels of potency Wizard Wrath that must be assigned a "Type/form" upon learning.

Sounds balanced to me + gives the PC more flavor choice. Why not have a 1d fireball mage instead of flinging lightning.
I personally like Rock-Paper-Scissor type of mechanics even if certain things like Magic Fist have a slightly better effect at the greater damage potential, it still will not set things on fire.

The acid splash has some ominous connotation. Not knowing what you do with that the inference that the spell has a multi hex/target effect could be very dangerous to balance.

[Drakenbow]

Originally Posted by timm meyers

Hopefully I am reading this correctly in that a PC can choose Missile Spell II at IQ 12 and choose at that point their preferred missile "type". This means they could know Magic Fist that does 1-1 damage (ie the IQ 12 fireball but as Magic Fist instead). This is basically saying you have 4 levels of potency Wizard Wrath that must be assigned a "Type/form" upon learning.

Sounds balanced to me + gives the PC more flavor choice. Why not have a 1d fireball mage instead of flinging lightning.
I personally like Rock-Paper-Scissor type of mechanics even if certain things like Magic Fist have a slightly better effect at the greater damage potential, it still will not set things on fire.

The acid splash has some ominous connotation. Not knowing what you do with that the inference that the spell has a multi hex/target effect could be very dangerous to balance.

My concept is that there are all together five spells with each four levels of mastery (IQ 8, 12, 14, 17) - five points to learn all types. Thus, IQ 17 a Wizard could have all five at level 4 mastery.

The issue with Lightning Bolt (IMO) is easy - the bolt must do at least 5 points of damage. I guess adding a bonus for a Bolt under IQ 14 (IQ 12, the item has a +1, and for IQ 8 the item has a +2. (But when I run any campaign games, the magic items are oten more durable than their mundane counterpart).

Since the effects don't persist, other than flames of a Fireball starting a fire, the secondary effects would be minimal to the instance of being hit. The Acid Splash isn't meant to persist round after round like being hit with Acid Touch.

Magic Fist
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Acid Splash
Iceball


As some have noted, this is meant to give more flavor of variance to the game - having a Wizard specialize in cold, or fire, or electricity, etc... Of course, an [B]Acid Splash[B] repeatedly on a door would have the same effects as slowly chopping away with an ax, but the wood is eroded by the damage.

[dmgrafton]

I have done something similar to this in my game. Except that what I have done is created what I call Spell Families. In our case, it's done to enrich the game and allow them a wider range of spell options during combat. In reality, it doesn't matter how many spells a wizard has. They're only going to be able to cast the same number of spells within a given set of turns based on their ST cost and the number of turns of the combat. Our combats typically last anywhere from 7 to 13 turns and a wizard can usually get 2-4 spells cast at most, after you factor in all the delays, interruptions, failed die rolls, etc. So for the Spell Families, when the wizard chooses the first spell they can immediately use it, then they automatically get the next spell in the Family when their IQ matches that next spell. Because the spells in the Spell Family are all of a similar nature and and don't take much to learn logistically, they amass these spells automatically as they move up in IQ. In some cases, We've created a mix of combat and non combat in the Spell Family so that the wizard gets a non combat spell in their inventory, which they would normally otherwise not pick. It also allows them to use a similar spell without being forced to spend a higher ST cost, so in other words they have more options. Breath Fire, Fireball, and Fireproofing are a Spell Family. Drop Weapon, Trip, and Break Weapon are a Family. We do have some powerful spells that are not in a Family -- they're stand alone -- like Lightning. All of this is done to enrich the game and allow us to see / experience more spells used during gameplay.

[dmgrafton]

A follow up comment: This idea we adopted of Spell Families has actually all also pushed us to create new spells to fit them with exisisting spells that don't fall into a "natural" Family of spells. So it's given us more flexibility and choice during game play. But it's actually also forced us to create a slightly more robust spell inventory. For instance we've modified the Adhesion spell such that now it is more like a "Glue" spell that can glue dungeon doors shut while on the run with a specific ST amount that must be burned or hacked at to remove; then we combined that into a Spell Family of Sticky Floor and two new spells of "Glob of Glue" and a " Web" spell.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by dmgrafton

I have done something similar to this in my game. Except that what I have done is created what I call Spell Families... So for the Spell Families, when the wizard chooses the first spell they can immediately use it, then they automatically get the next spell in the Family when their IQ matches that next spell... It also allows them to use a similar spell without being forced to spend a higher ST cost, so in other words they have more options. Breath Fire, Fireball, and Fireproofing are a Spell Family. Drop Weapon, Trip, and Break Weapon are a Family. We do have some powerful spells that are not in a Family -- they're stand alone -- like Lightning.

Sounds alot like the 'Spell List' model from ROLEMASTER.