Making combat less lethal.

[Shostak]

Hexagram 8 has Fear Factors that are about as simple as can be. After setting the initial Fear Factor to see if any foes lose morale and decide to retreat, the GM can add modifiers to it as individuals flee. Or rally, for that matter. Remember that broken troops can be inspired to throw themselves back in if they see that the tide might have changed in their favor.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

One of the old micro-quests (Silver Dragon maybe?) had simple morale rules for NPCs that would trigger them to retreat. I can't remember what they were but I remember liking them very much at the time.

Yes, it was Silver Dragon micro quest. Basically it was a reaction roll for each combatant whenever one of them was killed. It had clearly defined values and modifiers. I agree it was a clear & effective system.

I guess I do something similar as I do reaction rolls for the whole side, not the individual, based on some less defined criteria... maybe I need to firm this up.

Silver Dragon also had rules for retreat. I believe if you can get to the exit at the other side of the melee/wizard map, you could avoid the combat. Of course, if you made is across the map, you didn't avoid combat; just avoided continuing combat. Many of those spells I mentioned will help with this kind of escape system.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Hexagram 8 has Fear Factors that are about as simple as can be. After setting the initial Fear Factor to see if any foes lose morale and decide to retreat, the GM can add modifiers to it as individuals flee. Or rally, for that matter. Remember that broken troops can be inspired to throw themselves back in if they see that the tide might have changed in their favor.

That happened during large scale battles a few times back in my Classic TFT days. Things were going bad for two centaur squads. One had lost 5 out of 10 and the other lost about 4 including their leader. After pulling back, the remaining leader used his tactics and diplomacy to pull them back together as one group and went on to smash the enemy on that part of the battle.

[David Bofinger]

I think if you want it to be possible to retreat then start by making it possible to run out of engagement. And as long as you're doing it, make it harder to do silly things like charge around someone and attack their back.

Idea: A Flee action which allows you to move your full MA, can be used when engaged, but with restrictions. Certainly you can't reengage. Maybe every hex you move has to move you "away" in some sense: away from the nearest enemy, or if that isn't possible then no closer, or no closer and away from the second closest, or further away but engaged characters don't count somehow, or something along those lines. What I'm trying to capture here is that you can run away reasonably safely - moving backwards in combat is actually a pretty reasonable way of avoiding being hit - but because your opponent is also moving you really can't steal a march and come back into engagement with someone else, or go round a flank, without your original foe being able to react.

Idea: Restrict the charge action so you have to be moving closer to the target with each hex.

Both these ideas need thought but they might make some aspects of TFT less gamey.

[hcobb]

Make forced retreats automatic.

[Steve Plambeck]

My own combat turn sequence begins with an extra phase. Ahead of "Roll For Initiative" I have the "Chance To Flee". Any disengaged figure that wants to may declare itself Fleeing, and move now, before the roll for initiative, as long as it uses its full MA to move away from danger in as straight a line as possible and ending movement facing in the direction they ran. Having done so, the figure has no remaining movement or action for the turn. Of course to do this, the figure must end the previous turn disengaged.

That merely formalizes what ITL (105) already says under Escaping: "if they’re ahead of the enemy and running, their lead will not be sacrificed to a random die roll. Only a foe with higher MA can catch up to them if they keep running."

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

My own combat turn sequence begins with an extra phase. Ahead of "Roll For Initiative" I have the "Chance To Flee". Any disengaged figure that wants to may declare itself Fleeing, and move now, before the roll for initiative, as long as it uses its full MA to move away from danger in as straight a line as possible and ending movement facing in the direction they ran. Having done so, the figure has no remaining movement or action for the turn. Of course to do this, the figure must end the previous turn disengaged.

That merely formalizes what ITL (105) already says under Escaping: "if they’re ahead of the enemy and running, their lead will not be sacrificed to a random die roll. Only a foe with higher MA can catch up to them if they keep running."

That's an interesting point nestled within ITL. If a GM doesn't add the extra turn phase that you do, they would need to honor the declaration to flee by giving them such movement first during movement phase regardless of the results of the initiative roll. It could also be handled by allowing the declaration to flee at the beginning of the turn prior to Initiative and then the GM requiring the flee to occur first during movement. I think the results are the same.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Oh that works fine too, I'm just a lazy klutz who doesn't want to have to remember another cut-off point and do the simplest multiplication - LOL! So I still favor death at the point wounds equals ST, without counting as many things as lethal wounds. Either way, the goal is to have a wider buffer zone, and there's different good ways to do it.

That's one of the beauty of my system. You don't have to calculate ST x 2. If you are negative damage equal or more than your ST, you are dead and unrecoverable. ST 12 fighter goes to -12 (or more), he is dead. ST 15 goes to -15, dead. Simple.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

That's one of the beauty of my system. You don't have to calculate ST x 2. If you are negative damage equal or more than your ST, you are dead and unrecoverable. ST 12 fighter goes to -12 (or more), he is dead. ST 15 goes to -15, dead. Simple.

Very true, and it addresses the actual subject of the thread. I was straying off-topic in talking as much about broadening that fine line between unconscious and dead, although the former is inextricably linked to the rules one uses for the latter. While it's lovely and agreeable a ST 12 figure can be revived from -12, it's still a dead figure without intervention. In real life people can lose consciousness or be similarly disabled for even extended times without dying, and without magical intervention.

The simultaneity of death and unconsciousness, perhaps only separated by 1 more hit, is its own question, but one I think is worth working on.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

The simultaneity of death and unconsciousness, perhaps only separated by 1 more hit, is its own question, but one I think is worth working on.

I like playing with ideas.

Sounds like you are suggesting a wider margin. Unconscious at 0 is very narrow. I am fine with that since I like TFT for simplifying combat and allows fast tactical combat. But has some good complexities.

A wider range for unconsciousness without medical intervention does make for more roleplaying opportunities, if done right. This may be worth adding a bit more complexity.

As it is, for every point of fatigue past 0, I see someone recovering from at 1 ST per 15 minutes. That is not a bad model and some say you get an hour to recover from dead, so up to -4 ST from fatigue looks to be a natural line to copy.

So, let's say anything from ST 0 to ST -4 is the unconscious zone. At -5 you have an hour to restore them to the uncon zone. At -ST, there is no recovery.

The question then becomes with damage (not fatigue), what happens to the ST -4 hero without medical intervention? Healing by itself happens 1 ST per 2 days. Hero steps on a trap in a secluded area and goes to ST -4. Provided nothing else comes along to finish him off, we cannot be saying he will be healing without some for of care, food and water. At least not for 8 days.

May I suggest: if ST 0, then may heal on own in 2 days to ST 1. If ST -1 through -4, then will at least need some one to feed and give water, otherwise he/she will die in 2 days.

That gives the victim a 2 day margin with no friends, and upto an 8 day margin with unskilled friends. Of course a Master Physicker can bring a ST -7 back to ST -4 and leave them in the loving hands of their companions until he comes to in 8 days.

This should help with players losing a favorite character due to ST -1 and give them a role in returning the injured unconscious person to safety.