Making combat less lethal.

[hcobb]

Just start each PC with a limited wish for their one get out of death free card.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Agreed, although I think the wider buffer zone is between consciousness and death, not between unconsciousness and death.

Of course! Duh - my bad.

Originally Posted by Shostak

The problem with that is the fact that one can absolutely be pummeled to death. Fists and kicks can kill, and not just when aimed at the head; a ruptured spleen is no laughing matter. Rather than treat some wounds as lethal and other wounds as not, more detailed rules about the zone of unconsciousness might be better.

It's actually a bit more nuanced than I typed it just to keep it short and emphasize the main points. Agreed, blunt force trauma is of course no joke. Classifying some blows as non-lethal (including fatigue), some as always lethal, and some as non-lethal only up to a point assumes the weight of certain rules complications, keeping death, consciousness, and recovery rules simpler in some ways.

This affords little tweaks to some other things as well; those with unarmed combat/martial arts skills can choose whether they are making lethal or non-lethal hits, as can some with quarterstaff and other special weapons; drowning and asphyxiation can follow a pattern of non-lethal hits until consciousness is lost, and then further hits are all lethal, which somewhat mimics how drowning actually occurs; improvised weapons can do damage that won't usually lead to death -- my little table of those starts at the bottom with "Pillow (1-5) Non-lethal hits" :) Also healing (at the GM's discretion) may work by converting lethal hits already taken to non-lethal hits; someone saved then doesn't just jump up ready to immediately fight again, which feels a bit too gamey.

Yes all those things are more granular, but the upshot is less rules are then required about the "zone of unconsciousness" and death itself. There are always trade-offs.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Candidate rule: 15 minutes after losing consciousness the character gets 1d6 wounds back, which will raise her ST to a maximum of 1.

That's a very simple solution.

[pzmcgwire]

Good ideas here. What about morale rules? In the TFT app, opponents will run away when their strength is low (3 or less?)

Combat doesn't have to be to the last person standing and foes who are knocked down may decide not to get up immediately and play dead or when they wake from unconsciousness after the PCs leave, they'll run away rather than waiting in ambush for the PCs on the way back.

Are opponents' strength value public knowledge in combat. You can guess strength by the weapons being used, but probably can't tell if the opponent is already grievously wounded or very tired.

When opponents are knocked down, do you need a 3/IQ roll to noticed they are dead, unconscious versus just badly injured. Easier to tell for unarmored foes, but for visored up knights, it might not be obvious.

[DeadParrot]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

Good ideas here. What about morale rules? In the TFT app, opponents will run away when their strength is low (3 or less?)

Combat doesn't have to be to the last person standing and foes who are knocked down may decide not to get up immediately and play dead or when they wake from unconsciousness after the PCs leave, they'll run away rather than waiting in ambush for the PCs on the way back.

This. I don't understand why so many RPG players assume that all combat encounters are designed for them to win and that retreat is somehow never an acceptable option. Plus many opponents are at least as intelligent as the PCs and realistically, should place a high value on their own survival. Even most low intelligence critters have a mental risk/reward calculator and if their prospective meal is proving too difficult, they will break off and find something easier to eat.

Negotiation is an option as well. Maybe the side that is ahead in the conflict will offer the losing side the option of safe retreat for the cost of $200 per person to avoid further losses on the winning side.

[TippetsTX]

I've always found that TFT cures players of that particular gameplay assumption fairly quickly (expecting to fight their way thru every encounter).

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

I don't understand why so many RPG players assume that all combat encounters are designed for them to win and that retreat is somehow never an acceptable option.

In TFT it's not so easy to retreat. By the time it's clear you won't win it's usually too late to get away. At best one or two might escape, leaving their friends to die.

I think surrender is more often practical than retreat. Obviously it doesn't work with all foes.

Negotiation is an option as well. Maybe the side that is ahead in the conflict will offer the losing side the option of safe retreat for the cost of $200 per person to avoid further losses on the winning side.

You need both sides to stop fighting while you discuss terms. It might be possible. But again, I think the deal is more likely to be "Surrender, and you can walk out of here alive, with physickering, with no money and any equipment we decide we can't be bothered carrying." And that's an easy offer for the winning side to make.

[pzmcgwire]

I think the murder hobo trope is pretty prevalent still in most current TFT adventures.

In the recent Quick Quests, all the valuable possessions of NPCs are listed as if it's expected for the players to loot the bodies.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

In the recent Quick Quests, all the valuable possessions of NPCs are listed as if it's expected for the players to loot the bodies.

It's also easy to take people's stuff after they've surrendered... because they don't want to die.

If they run away, that does make taking their stuff a bit trickier, though.
;)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

This. I don't understand why so many RPG players assume that all combat encounters are designed for them to win and that retreat is somehow never an acceptable option.

By the time you're engaged in something that can reasonably be called a combat encounter, retreat is often not an available option. Successfully running away from a close combat engagement is not easy (either in reality or TFT).