Subdermal armor - Page 2

hal · 06-21-2023, 08:47 PM

Hello Folks,
Often times, it comes to pass where we as players or GMs will look at something from say, GURPS MAGIC or GURPS ULTRATECH, wonder "what impact would this have in the real world if such things exist. Today, the spotlight is on Subdermal armor along with David Pulver's rules for building armor from the Various Pyramid articles, and life in the future as it were...

The first problem in all of this is that the Subdermal armor appears to be a function of "building things with character points". Why? Because you can't build any given piece of armor as provided in Pyramid 3_85 or Pyramid 3_96 to match the specific stats as given in ULTRATECH.

As always, when I run into a puzzling situation, I compare/contrast the newer rules with the older 3rd edition rules, and I find that the new edition of the rules offer a far larger armount of Damage Resistance than does the 3rd edition rules (by a factor of 300%).

That being said - the closest analog of the Subdermal armor in the Pyramid issues is the Basic Nanoweave armor, with a DR of 110. If you use this material to attain a 12 DR armor, you will have a DR 12 vs Piercing and Cutting, but a DR of 3 vs all others. Cost for a FULL body armor runs about $5,800, weighs 7.7 lbs.

With this pre-amble, some questions arise regarding what happens in real life when you slap this assembly on a human body beneath the skin.

1) the thickness of the armor works out to 12 DR divided by 110 DR per inch, or roughly 0.11 inches. Double that for its front AND back, and the human's body acquires a girth of about .22 inches. Slather that on the human skull, and it renders the human face unrecognizable from its original configuration.

2) (as asked by a player) - what happens when you need to repair that armor once it is installed? We'll ignore the issue of bio-compatability and assume it doesn't cause rejection syndrome. If someone utilizes a cutting edge that inflicts 16 points of damage (for instance), that penetrates the armor, making for a nice rent in the armor.

3) (as asked by a player) - what happens if for instance, a woman has this installed, and she should become pregnant with child? The armor's flexibility would not be able to sustain the displacement of a growing child.

For YEARS, I would not permit Subdermal armor in my campaigns for reasons along the line of "The skin's network of nerves need to penetrate the sudermal armor". In addition, having undertaken biology classes in my distant past, there is a layer of "Connective" tissue, that keeps the skin connected to the musle and body outright. Third Degree burns and other trauma will cause issues with connective tissue - something that would have to be addressed when removing skin (Flaying a person alive) and slapping the armor on, and then covering the skin back over.

I can handwave that away with stem cell technology that permits stem cells to rebuild tissue (including nerve pathways and even connective tissue), but items 1 through 3 remain an issue.

I have my own thoughts, but I figured "hey, neat topic. See if the hive mind can come up with answers to those three questions..."

My own answer? #1 means that if you want to keep your face recognizable as it once was, you have to avoid using subdermal armor on the head proper. #2 is "if they can open you once and install it, they can open you again and patch it.". #3 is "the armor would cause issues with the body's attempt to grow past the confinement of the armor itself. Growing FAT with this installed is likely NOT a good idea. Growing larger with child is also not a good idea. Alternatively, the armor has to be prebuilt to permit certain "panels" to be removed in the event of an emergency.

Just random thoughts...

06-21-2023, 08:47 PM	#1
hal Join Date: Aug 2004	Subdermal armor Hello Folks, Often times, it comes to pass where we as players or GMs will look at something from say, GURPS MAGIC or GURPS ULTRATECH, wonder "what impact would this have in the real world if such things exist. Today, the spotlight is on Subdermal armor along with David Pulver's rules for building armor from the Various Pyramid articles, and life in the future as it were... The first problem in all of this is that the Subdermal armor appears to be a function of "building things with character points". Why? Because you can't build any given piece of armor as provided in Pyramid 3_85 or Pyramid 3_96 to match the specific stats as given in ULTRATECH. As always, when I run into a puzzling situation, I compare/contrast the newer rules with the older 3rd edition rules, and I find that the new edition of the rules offer a far larger armount of Damage Resistance than does the 3rd edition rules (by a factor of 300%). That being said - the closest analog of the Subdermal armor in the Pyramid issues is the Basic Nanoweave armor, with a DR of 110. If you use this material to attain a 12 DR armor, you will have a DR 12 vs Piercing and Cutting, but a DR of 3 vs all others. Cost for a FULL body armor runs about $5,800, weighs 7.7 lbs. With this pre-amble, some questions arise regarding what happens in real life when you slap this assembly on a human body beneath the skin. 1) the thickness of the armor works out to 12 DR divided by 110 DR per inch, or roughly 0.11 inches. Double that for its front AND back, and the human's body acquires a girth of about .22 inches. Slather that on the human skull, and it renders the human face unrecognizable from its original configuration. 2) (as asked by a player) - what happens when you need to repair that armor once it is installed? We'll ignore the issue of bio-compatability and assume it doesn't cause rejection syndrome. If someone utilizes a cutting edge that inflicts 16 points of damage (for instance), that penetrates the armor, making for a nice rent in the armor. 3) (as asked by a player) - what happens if for instance, a woman has this installed, and she should become pregnant with child? The armor's flexibility would not be able to sustain the displacement of a growing child. For YEARS, I would not permit Subdermal armor in my campaigns for reasons along the line of "The skin's network of nerves need to penetrate the sudermal armor". In addition, having undertaken biology classes in my distant past, there is a layer of "Connective" tissue, that keeps the skin connected to the musle and body outright. Third Degree burns and other trauma will cause issues with connective tissue - something that would have to be addressed when removing skin (Flaying a person alive) and slapping the armor on, and then covering the skin back over. I can handwave that away with stem cell technology that permits stem cells to rebuild tissue (including nerve pathways and even connective tissue), but items 1 through 3 remain an issue. I have my own thoughts, but I figured "hey, neat topic. See if the hive mind can come up with answers to those three questions..." My own answer? #1 means that if you want to keep your face recognizable as it once was, you have to avoid using subdermal armor on the head proper. #2 is "if they can open you once and install it, they can open you again and patch it.". #3 is "the armor would cause issues with the body's attempt to grow past the confinement of the armor itself. Growing FAT with this installed is likely NOT a good idea. Growing larger with child is also not a good idea. Alternatively, the armor has to be prebuilt to permit certain "panels" to be removed in the event of an emergency. Just random thoughts...