How Much Food is in an Urban US Armory?

[ericthered]

We're playing a game about the end of the world (multiple ends of multiple worlds, in fact), and the players have located an armory that's still mostly intact. How much food should I expect to be there, roughly? The nukes went off 10 days ago and I've said only about 200 people are eating the food located there.

[Donny Brook]

I wasn't able to find a standard 'armory' installation to assess.

If the installation is storing field rations as inventory, then it could be a very large amount (dozens of tons), with details being very circumstantial rather than having a standard answer.

If you are thinking of a cafeteria or commissary, I wouldn't bet on more than a single digit multiple of days of typical daily use. A food professional of some kind might be able to stretch that by up to double with careful rationing.

[mlangsdorf]

Current US armed forces practice is to generally not have armories in urban areas, unless a pre-existing camp or fort had a city grow up around them. So it's a weird question.

An urban installation might be something relatively small, like Camp Mabry in Austin, Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Mabry) which is less than 375 acres, to something reasonably huge like Fort Sam Houston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sam_Houston) in San Antonio on 3,000 acres with a staff of 25,000+.

In either case, I agree with Donny Brook: US bases don't generally store MREs. There might be some in the post exchanges (military shops), but most food on a base is going to fresh ingredients for cooked meals at the base cafeterias, and those probably restock on a weekly basis with a little extra on hand in case the deliveries are late or people eat extra.

So if you assume an urban base like Camp Mabry with a staff of around 3,000 and you assume most of them eat at the base commissionary (though why would you at an urban base?) you're probably looking at no more than 100,000 meals (11 days, if the world ends just after the fresh food gets delivered) and no less than 36,000 (4 days, if the world ends on the day before delivery), plus maybe a crate or two of MREs at the PX.

A much smaller base - I don't think the US military has bases with staffs of 200 but maybe it does - would have proportionally less. But in general, I'd expect that 10 days after an apocalypse, most of the fresh food would be gone.

It would be surprising, but not impossible, for a base that was preparing to deploy troops to have their MREs on hand, but I'd generally expect the Army logistics to pick up deliveries of MREs from the manufacturer and ship them straight to the troops in the field. An airbase or navy base might have warehouses of MREs ready to be shipped out, I suppose. A National Guard base might have extra MREs intended for distribution during natural disasters.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Current US armed forces practice is to generally not have armories in urban areas, unless a pre-existing camp or fort had a city grow up around them. So it's a weird question.

Define "urban." There generally won't be armories in the central business district, but they go where the people (recruits) are. Google "national guard armory" for your favorite city: I count four in San Antonio, which already has one of the largest active duty military populations in the country. Phoenix proper has two, but one of those is the Papago Park Military Reservation, with multiple units drilling there (and besides Luke AFB). As a very young private, my Army Reserve Center was literally under the Woodrow Wilson Bridge in Alexandria, Virginia, and my National Guard Armory (when I switched) was in Annapolis, walking distance from the capitol.

An urban installation might be something relatively small, like Camp Mabry in Austin, Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Mabry) which is less than 375 acres, to something reasonably huge like Fort Sam Houston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sam_Houston) in San Antonio on 3,000 acres with a staff of 25,000+.

Neither Camp Mabry nor Fort Sam Houston count as armories -- they are full-sized bases, albeit with different missions.

US bases don't generally store MREs.

They most certainly do. Every unit that deploys through a base has to be provided with a restock of the supplies they use, including food. It's not like the Army can buy MREs by the case from Krogers.

What the posters so far have missed is the concept of "unit basic load." A US Army National Guard armory is expected to stock enough supplies (mostly food and ammunition, but also parts and other items) to keep the unit going until it can (a) get to its deployment site and (b) hook into the resupply system. They typically use these on their weekend drills and replenish them as they go, so the stock is always being rotated.

That should mean 3-5 days of supply for the unit at full strength. This will vary with the unit type: an armor company (say) has far fewer personnel than an infantry company. A headquarters company or higher-echelon support company could easily have 200-300 personnel. Some large armories also support more than one company.

So it is entirely possible that ericthered's 200 people have been dining on MREs and T-rats ("tray rations"), but they should be about gone. A prudent or well-organized group could stretch that out: a single MRE is 2500 kcal (if memory serves), so a person who is not humping a 50kg ruck all day might get by on only one per day.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by thrash

A prudent or well-organized group could stretch that out: a single MRE is 2500 kcal (if memory serves), so a person who is not humping a 50kg ruck all day might get by on only one per day.

But MREs are fairly concentrated, so anyone living on just one MRE a day might be grumpy due to perceptions of hunger, even if they're getting sufficient calories.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

But MREs are fairly concentrated, so anyone living on just one MRE a day might be grumpy due to perceptions of hunger, even if they're getting sufficient calories.

One MRE is 1200 calories. That's a minimal by UN standards and the bottom even for dieters. I can't maintain body weight on 1200 calories a day even when sedentary (yes, I've tried, I personally needed 2200 calories when I was in my mid-50s)).

So, tt's probably more than a "perception" of hunger.

For persons living the equivalent of a "field" miltary lifestyle even 3600 calories a day may not be enough. WWII studies showed that 4200 calories with more for "Jungle" or "Mountain" troops was actually necessary t the US Quartermaster Corps wasn't about to do that.

I have at times pondered an alternate history where the upper ranks of the QC was at a conference in Pearl Harbor in December of '41 and what that would do to the length of the war. :)

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

It would be surprising, but not impossible, for a base that was preparing to deploy troops to have their MREs on hand, but I'd generally expect the Army logistics to pick up deliveries of MREs from the manufacturer and ship them straight to the troops in the field. An airbase or navy base might have warehouses of MREs ready to be shipped out, I suppose. A National Guard base might have extra MREs intended for distribution during natural disasters.

I would expect a functional base (i.e. any base with warehouse space) will likely at a minimum have a pallet or two of cases of MREs.

Per https://www.dla.mil/Troop-Support/Su...l-rations/MRE/

A pallet of MREs consists of 48 cases (12 MRE to the case). So 576 MRE to the pallet (weight about 1100 lbs).

If I were to be GM I would rough sketch out the 'normal stock' of MRE Inventory.

Then I would make a 3D6 roll for how in/out of stock they are on MREs and give the base a starting value of X pallets of MREs. They have a listed shelf life of 3 years and are quite useful to have around.

The only question is just whether or not the facility the PCs are at deals with troops. If so there are likely warehouses (or storage rooms or loading docks) with X pallets of MREs.

Otherwise it might be a Donner Party!

[ericthered]

So the armory the players are looking at is "real", its the southington armory of conneticut. Its national guard owned, and it fits on one rather large lot.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by ericthered

So the armory the players are looking at is "real", its the southington armory of conneticut. Its national guard owned, and it fits on one rather large lot.

I honestly doubt they'd have enough stored food on site to last 100 people 5 days, much less feed 200 people for 10 days.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by ericthered

So the armory the players are looking at is "real", its the southington armory of conneticut. Its national guard owned, and it fits on one rather large lot.

The Connecticut National Guard website is a bit confusing, but it appears that H Co (Forward Support), 186th Brigade Support Battalion, is stationed there. The equipment visible in Google Maps is consistent with a Forward Support Company. That's both good news and bad news.

The good news is that a Forward Support Company offers assets you'd like to have in a post-apocalypse setting:

Originally Posted by FM 4-90

6-3. The FSCs have a headquarters section, field feeding section, distribution platoon, and a maintenance platoon. The distribution platoon consists of a platoon headquarters, Class III section, general supply section, and a Class V section. The maintenance platoon consists of a platoon headquarters, maintenance control section, maintenance section, service and recovery section and the field maintenance teams (FMTs).

The bad news is that FSC's are only mid-sized, with 233 personnel at full strength. Assuming 3-5 days of supply on hand at the armory, that's 700-1165 person-days of rations. Two hundred survivors would likely have eaten through it all in 10 days, even on short (2 MRE/day) rations.

Depending on the nature of the disaster, though, the unit has the assets to go out and bring back most classes of supplies from elsewhere (grocery store, distribution center, gas station, etc.).