Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

And on another note, talents shouldn't have DX prerequisites that then in turn grant DX bonuses. It's double dipping of a sort. More honest to say my DX isn't good enough to do this particular thing without concentrated study and practice of this one thing. Shouldn't have to improve overall DX to improve DX at one thing. It stops being a trade off when the reward for something is more of the same something.

I couldn't agree more!

[Chris Rice]

For my long running campaigns I found it more effective to split the attributes (see “A modest Proposal for The Fantasy Trip” in the TFT Companion p42).

This allowed me to reward the players with regular and meaningful attribute increases without quickly overpowering the system. I think I allowed the secondary attribute of the pair to be cheaper to increase, so Strength was harder to increase than Hit Points/Health, Intelligence was harder to increase than Knowledge, etc. Unfortunately my notes are long gone.

I’m not currently running campaign style games but if I was to do so, this is the approach I’d take.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Thanks, Bill. I think the UC talents are powerful enough as-is, though.

I agree that the UC talents are powerful. I guess that one could argue that they don't need such knock down resistance because of the added damage and DX reductions from attacks.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Which talents have a DX prerequisite and grants DX bonuses?

The weapons expertise talents don't grant bonuses. The upper level of UC sort of does, insofar as the DX penalty for kicking gets lower. Similarly, Two Weapons kind of does, since it lowers the penalty for using two weapons in an attack and has a DX penalty. Hence, Fencing also sort of counts.

Are these reduced penalties what you have in mind or am I missing other examples?

I concur and am curious as to which talents he's referring.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Which talents have a DX prerequisite and grants DX bonuses?

Acrobatics has a min. DX of 12 and gives a -1d benefit (+4 DX) to acrobatic feats. Master Pickpocket requires DX of 14 and gives the -1d benefit. Also Master Locksmith. UC talents (DX bonus for kicks).

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Acrobatics has a min. DX of 12 and gives a -1d benefit (+4 DX) to acrobatic feats. Master Pickpocket requires DX of 14 and gives the -1d benefit. Also Master Locksmith. UC talents (DX bonus for kicks).

With respect to UC Talent kicks, is the reduction of a minus (penalty) to DX really a bonus?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

With respect to UC Talent kicks, is the reduction of a minus (penalty) to DX really a bonus?

Well, how do you go from -4 (UC I) to -2 (UC II)? By adding 2. If that isn't a bonus, what is?

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Well, how do you go from -4 (UC I) to -2 (UC II)? By adding 2. If that isn't a bonus, what is?

While it is an advantage for UC to have less of a penalty, a penalty still exists. A penalty is not a bonus. I see what you're saying but, to me, a bonus is a plus and not a minus.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Acrobatics has a min. DX of 12 and gives a -1d benefit (+4 DX) to acrobatic feats. Master Pickpocket requires DX of 14 and gives the -1d benefit. Also Master Locksmith. UC talents (DX bonus for kicks).

Removing dice (sometimes down to no roll needed) is much more advantageous than attribute adjustments.

For example:
Weapon talents reduce to-hit rolls from 4/DX to 3/DX
Boating eliminates save vs fall

And talents that require IQ reduce IQ save dice: Alertness, Recognize Value, Detect Traps, etc.

The currency here is to buy up DX or IQ then spend precious memory points. None of these are automatic gimmies for high attributes in the same way that bare handed damage automatically increases with ST.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

While it is an advantage for UC to have less of a penalty, a penalty still exists. A penalty is not a bonus. I see what you're saying but, to me, a bonus is a plus and not a minus.

Taking this approach, one buys the first few UC talents to gain a penalty on kicks, which seems an odd way to look at it.