Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs?

[phiwum]

Bill, you're right that UC V is very, very difficult to attain, requiring planning at character creation as well as in-game development.

Far as I'm concerned, that's a feature. UC V is a very rare achievement. Good. If one ever reaches that plateau, they should feel quite proud (and will also have a character with quite substantial talent in combat).

[hcobb]

The nerf to Unarmed Combat V is that the XP cost to achieve it has increased (ST 6, DX 16, IQ 14 was only 36 attribute points under the old system and hence only a mere 500 EPs, vs ST 12, DX 14, IQ 14 + 7 memory points at 500 XPs each (over UC III) for a total of 11,800 XPs in Legacy) and the advantages it offers are about the same as before.


At the same time Weapon Mastery has been introduced, which along with the staff improvements have made Dagger Mastery a much better choice for wizards.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Bill, you're right that UC V is very, very difficult to attain, requiring planning at character creation as well as in-game development.

Far as I'm concerned, that's a feature. UC V is a very rare achievement. Good. If one ever reaches that plateau, they should feel quite proud (and will also have a character with quite substantial talent in combat).

I concur but it was no different in the original TFT except you didn't have to content with the designed 40 attribute total stall/wall point. In our game we had three players attain that level and it took several years of playing at of high density play time. No you can see why I am very focused on his development toward UC 5. I don't know if he will make it because the men on my family can't seem to make it past 70. LOL!

As I pointed out, it seems to even be harder for a wizard to obtain staff 5 unless they are at ST 6 to 8. No wonder Henry likes his ST 6 Goblin Wizards. LOL!

I recently generated a new Elf wizard starting at ST 6 DX 11 IQ 15. He was able to start with Staff 4 but no ST to do much to stay alive. However, 2 more IQ points for Staff 5. As Henry mentioned in his link, he can start charging his manastaff. It's workable but everything boils down to getting your attributes to a certain point at the stall point. After that, it's all talent/spell bloat.

Like I said, I think that they went too far and traded one problem for another without taking into account all aspects of character development.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Bill, you're right that UC V is very, very difficult to attain, requiring planning at character creation as well as in-game development.

Far as I'm concerned, that's a feature. UC V is a very rare achievement. Good. If one ever reaches that plateau, they should feel quite proud (and will also have a character with quite substantial talent in combat).

TBH, I'm not convinced that UC V is worth all that XP, but that's a different discussion.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

TBH, I'm not convinced that UC V is worth all that XP, but that's a different discussion.

I confess I haven't seen it in play. Perhaps you're right.

[hcobb]

How many characters have started with UC III? (Heroes or wizards?)

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by hcobb

How many characters have started with UC III? (Heroes or wizards?)

I have never started such a character but may just to see how it goes.

That would have to be either an Elf or Goblin at ST 6, DX 12, and IQ 12 with 2 extra attribute points to assign or any ST 8 character with the same DX and IQ. That is where they will stay in the quest to obtain UC4 until their ST is 11 and DX is 13.

Their Bare Hands Damage (BHD), KICK, and HTH damage would be limited by their low ST. Even with the additional damages allowed for UC3, the character would have to rely on other weapons skills to survive long enough to get their ST up to a point where they can do some reasonable damage or obtain toughness to mitigate their lack of armor even though they do naturally stop 2 hits (the really big advantage of UC3). They will be little more than an agile nuisance creature that is hard to hit. They can increase their BHD and HTH by 3 points if the GM allows them to wield a Cestus. Only then can they make an impact if they aren't killed in the process.

Some GMs will take the following wording from ITL very literally.

To use this skill – or any higher-level Unarmed Combat skill – a figure must be unarmored, or wearing cloth armor only, and have both hands free.

Our house rules (Classic TFT) were that any other weapon skill can be coupled with UC Talents with respect to kick, defense, evasion, stopped hits, and shield rush but no damage related bonuses would apply outside of that particular level of weapon skill. The only exception would be the Cestus which is described as a spiked glove/gauntlet that can't be dropped which would add to BHD and HTH but they couldn't hold anything else in that same hand. Having UC Talents doesn't make one forget any other weapon ability that they may have. In real life, they are commonly combined. However, this would be a topic for the House Rules Forum.

[Skipper2921]

Well, this thread has taken a couple turns. I guess that can be expected for a thread that started with four questions :-)

Bill, as we have discussed, because of the many obligations present in a working life, I mainly play programmed adventures or individual arena type experiments solitaire. I've recently started exploring the various intelligent races as characters. Right now, I'm thinking about a gargoyle character - obviously centered on combat skills.

As for my thoughts on attributes. The increased cost of attributes doesn't bother me too much. If it easy to get to high dexterity and IQ points, we can quickly get to the point where checks against them rely upon automatic failures. I'm not sure I like that. However, I think the cost for gaining talents through experience points is too high with the LE attribute table. I like gaining talents once I get a character to 34/35 attribute total. Has anyone looked at 200 experience points for a talent point? It seems that would allow a character to add basic talents, that don't require high IQ, that make them more survivable in the story. It also pushes the talent/attribute decision lower. Yet, if a character wants to become an expert/master at nearly anything, it requires an IQ 11 to 14, which will require significant experience expenditures on attributes.

Last hcobb, thanks for the idea, another good experiment. I will say, at first look, since the 40 attribute points is required, starting with a higher strength and a weapon talent might need to rely less on the rest of the party in the early stages. of course, that is what makes for a good experiment :-)

[hcobb]

My notes on the Monk
https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html#Monk

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

How many characters have started with UC III? (Heroes or wizards?)

I had a PC start with UC III, but unfortunately the player didn't stay with us long enough to give a good evaluation of that strategy.