Studded Leather Armor

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by Drakenbow

Back in the 80s, I picked up three thin booklets made for another game which focused on weapons mostly. Weapons and Castles, Weapons and Assassins, and Weapons and Armor (by Matthew Balent).

Love those books (which you can now get in a single compendium). A great resource.

They provide more detail than would ever be appropriate for TFT, but it did influence my own expanded armor rules.
https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=187178

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

My friend that makes armor actually prefers adding small metal plates to the leather because they are easier to make, attach, and maintain. He said that they do add a little more protection over straight leather without adding enough weight to change the encumbrance factor.

This sounds like what would be called Lamellar Armour, which is made with attaching overlapping plates to cloth or leather. Imperial Chinese armies wore the best of these, using bronze plates sewn to leather. Different cultures at different times made Lamellar Armour not just from bronze, but from sea shell, turtle shell, horn, bone, and even pangolin scales (the latter being really expensive and reserved for royalty). What we usually call scale armour is the heir to this design, just made with iron or steel plates. Lamellar could be quite advantageous to wizards.

In TFT Chainmail seems under-priced for all the time and work that really goes into it. Lamellar, or Scale, could readily take it's place in TFT, with Chain kicked up to stopping 4 hits and costing more than it does now.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

This sounds like what would be called Lamellar Armour, which is made with attaching overlapping plates to cloth or leather. Imperial Chinese armies wore the best of these, using bronze plates sewn to leather. Different cultures at different times made Lamellar Armour not just from bronze, but from sea shell, turtle shell, horn, bone, and even pangolin scales (the latter being really expensive and reserved for royalty). What we usually call scale armour is the heir to this design, just made with iron or steel plates. Lamellar could be quite advantageous to wizards.

In TFT Chainmail seems under-priced for all the time and work that really goes into it. Lamellar, or Scale, could readily take it's place in TFT, with Chain kicked up to stopping 4 hits and costing more than it does now.

We liked the idea of having the same hits stopped as chain mail with the leather MA adjustment.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

We liked the idea of having the same hits stopped as chain mail with the leather MA adjustment.

Hi Bill,
Sorry but "Studded Leather Armor" is not a historical thing. If you think about it, adding studs is not going to make a big difference. It certainly would not be an improvement over chain, or leather.

If someone wants studded leather armor I would say that it is identical to leather armor except it would cost more. It is leather armor with decoration that may show the wearer's rank or class.

Brigandine, from the very late medieval era and throughout the renaissance, is as much metal as it is leather. Not just a few studs.

Usually unnamed armors are just represented by using one of the other listed armors. If you give a new armor only advantages, then there will be no one wearing the old armors. Why would they. If you really want to add a new armor that is unique, give it both advantages and disadvantages compared to all other armors. Or, (as in the case or bronze or silver armor) just disadvantages.

Therefore, studded leather armor with can either be with so few studs that it does not differ from leather functionally. Or it has so much metal added to it, such as brigandine, that it is essentially another armor with both its advantages and disadvantages.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Hi Bill,
Sorry but "Studded Leather Armor" is not a historical thing. If you think about it, adding studs is not going to make a big difference. It certainly would not be an improvement over chain, or leather.

If someone wants studded leather armor I would say that it is identical to leather armor except it would cost more. It is leather armor with decoration that may show the wearer's rank or class.

Brigandine, from the very late medieval era and throughout the renaissance, is as much metal as it is leather. Not just a few studs.

Usually unnamed armors are just represented by using one of the other listed armors. If you give a new armor only advantages, then there will be no one wearing the old armors. Why would they. If you really want to add a new armor that is unique, give it both advantages and disadvantages compared to all other armors. Or, (as in the case or bronze or silver armor) just disadvantages.

Therefore, studded leather armor with can either be with so few studs that it does not differ from leather functionally. Or it has so much metal added to it, such as brigandine, that it is essentially another armor with both its advantages and disadvantages.

I agree.

Over the course of this thread, you can see where I stated that it was actually more like metal plates instead of studs (per my mislabeling) and that either were not practical for the cost per my discussions with a person that actually makes armor.

[David Bofinger]

How does this new form of armour make the game more fun?

Creating a new kind of equipment that's better than what everyone else uses is good for the character who owns it, or the character who is about to kill the boss who is wearing it and take the armour as booty. But the test for whether it's a good idea to include it in TFT should be harsher than that. It should need to make the game more enjoyable, e.g. by making it more tactically interesting, or by allowing a new dimension for characters to vary.

More variety in armour might be fun. You could have armour that was better against certain kinds of attacks, or which blocked any damage roll of 6, or whatever. You could give one kind of armour a greater penalty to DX and a lesser penalty to MA, you could introduce vision penalties. Differences like this might give characters an interesting decision to make. But just making the armour better doesn't do any of these.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

How does this new form of armour make the game more fun?

That wasn't the focus but it seemed fun back in our classic TFT days several years after it went out of print. It gave an option that stopped an extra hit above leather armor without taking in the DX and MA hits of chain mail. It didn't effect the game much because higher levels of armor were still desired. Why do any of us experiment with new ideas in TFT? There is a some amount of fun associated with providing more options, wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Creating a new kind of equipment that's better than what everyone else uses is good for the character who owns it, or the character who is about to kill the boss who is wearing it and take the armour as booty. But the test for whether it's a good idea to include it in TFT should be harsher than that. It should need to make the game more enjoyable, e.g. by making it more tactically interesting, or by allowing a new dimension for characters to vary.

For the few times that it did come up, it met your litmus test.

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

More variety in armour might be fun. You could have armour that was better against certain kinds of attacks, or which blocked any damage roll of 6, or whatever. You could give one kind of armour a greater penalty to DX and a lesser penalty to MA, you could introduce vision penalties. Differences like this might give characters an interesting decision to make. But just making the armour better doesn't do any of these.

I agree but that was not the intent of this thread.

As I have stated before in this very thread, after starting this thread a long time ago, I started talking about this type of armor with someone that actually makes armor. He was saying the studs on the leather wouldn't be of much benefit other than appearance and it would be costly in time and material. He preferred small plates of metal to achieve the same result of some additional protection. Even then, it faced the same time and material expense. So, you could do it but the cost makes it less practical with respect to the amount of protection it provides. I have not introduced this armor type into my Legacy TFT game. If I were to do so, I would call it Plated Leather or something more correct per my armor making friend's input.