Is Cargo a Valid Hit Location if There is no Actual Cargo?

[Mettius]

For Car Wars Compendium (PDF from Warehouse 23).


Many vehicles will not have every component listed. If a component
is not present, just skip it! Few cars will have both front and rear power
plants (motor); many will have no gunner, turret or cargo.

and then states...

When a weapon penetrates from the front or back, the damage goes
to each internal location in order. Only one actual item in each location
can be damaged by a single shot. When a weapon penetrates from the
side, roll randomly to see which of the three locations is hit. Re-roll for
any nonexistent location. A location that is destroyed (such as a
destroyed PP) is still a location which damage can hit and pass
through. A car with unused space does have a cargo location, even if it
doesn’t have any actual cargo.
-p41 CW Compendium

We are a bit confused. I'm getting back into the game after many many years. So in the case of damage coming through the under body armor a single component would be hit until destroyed, then remaining damage would hit the top armor.

In the case of a vehicle design which does have some extra spaces and weight left over, does this mean there exists a cargo hit location? (With no DP, and nothing in it?) Or only if there is something like a passenger stuffed in the trunk or some other scenario defined "cargo"?

[kjamma4]

Yes, there does not need to be actual cargo in the space to be a viable location

[swordtart]

Fully concur with kjamma.

Technically there doesn't even have to be any weight left over for there to be a cargo location. This makes sense, if your luxury car is just as big as another luxury car but it only has half the internal space used up then it is more likely the penetrating hit would pass through an empty area. Of course it is an abstraction, you could have a luxury with 1/3 of a space left (2 mini rockets take up 2/3 space). There is the same 1/3 chance of hitting that tiny cargo area as a luxury with the majority of it's space. So giving up less than 2% of your internal space you can gain a 33% immunity to internal hits. This is of course really cheesy :)

Note that cycles are treated slightly differently as all components are effectively in the same compartment so any hit penetrating armour hits one and only one component, on the flip side they don't have a cargo compartment so you always hit something internal. These rules are for some reason in the Cycle Targeting section whereas other vehicles are in the Damage Location section.

[Mettius]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Fully concur with kjamma.

Technically there doesn't even have to be any weight left over for there to be a cargo location. This makes sense, if your luxury car is just as big as another luxury car but it only has half the internal space used up then it is more likely the penetrating hit would pass through an empty area. Of course it is an abstraction, you could have a luxury with 1/3 of a space left (2 mini rockets take up 2/3 space). There is the same 1/3 chance of hitting that tiny cargo area as a luxury with the majority of it's space. So giving up less than 2% of your internal space you can gain a 33% immunity to internal hits. This is of course really cheesy :)

Makes sense. However, if one has zero space left over (even if excess weight is left over) and no dedicated cargo, then it would not be a hit-able location.

[juris]

Also, for pedestrians carrying an empty suitcase - 50% chance to hit the pedestrian. 5 empty suitcases? Only a 1 in 6 chance.

[swordtart]

Originally Posted by Mettius

Makes sense. However, if one has zero space left over (even if excess weight is left over) and no dedicated cargo, then it would not be a hit-able location.

Remember there are three and only 3 compartments. Crew, Engine (Power Plant) and Cargo. So any component (that can be destroyed) that is not the Plant or Crew or a mounted weapon (or any accessories that are co-mounted with one of those - e.g. extra magazines, laser batteries, component armour etc.) is in the Cargo compartment and becomes an eligible target for hits on that compartment.

This could include passengers (you get to choose where you put them) but it can also include any other components whether they take up space or not. There aren't that many but for example, PES would be one, obviously portable shop, cargo safe, bulk ammo boxes and the like, rocket boosters or jump jets, solar panels, as well as components explicitly designated as cargo items. I thought searchlight was mounted to a weapon location but I note that it doesn't state this in the actual description (unlike vehicle camera). If it is not mounted as a weapon that would also be a component with DPs that would go in the cargo compartment.

So even a car with no "cargo" might still have components in the Cargo compartment.

[Parody]

Originally Posted by swordtart

Remember there are three and only 3 compartments. Crew, Engine (Power Plant) and Cargo. So any component (that can be destroyed) that is not the Plant or Crew or a mounted weapon (or any accessories that are co-mounted with one of those - e.g. extra magazines, laser batteries, component armour etc.) is in the Cargo compartment and becomes an eligible target for hits on that compartment.

A very notable Cargo location item is a Gas Tank. You need to be electric to get the empty Cargo location for damage allocation.

ObTopic: We play that yes, Cargo is a valid allocation space regardless of what's in it.

[juris]

Under the core rules - yes I agree. Is it cheesy? Yes. Have there been arena designs with an empty cargo space for this reason? Yes. Is it effective? Not really. A FE or CA or sloping is much better.

Originally Posted by kjamma4

Yes, there does not need to be actual cargo in the space to be a viable location

[43Supporter]

Back-when, we got around the "cheese" by using the "size" of the internal component to determine the chance of it being hit.

For ex.: Someone using a Pickup with a 150cid-turbo engine had four internal components (driver; engine; fuel tank; cargo space) totaling 16 spaces. The internal-hit roll would look like this:

[1d6]
1: Fuel
2: Engine
3: Driver
4-6: Cargo

This is, however, an "edge case" -- a more-usual situation would be that of my _DMN-8R_, which has a driver [2 sp.], 150cid engine [3 sp.], 5-gallon tank [0 sp.], and one unused space [1 sp.]:

[1d6]
1: Fuel
2-3: Engine
4-5: Driver
6: Cargo

[swordtart]

I had various goes at this but I kept running up against the component with DPs but no space and the component that has space but no DPs issue.

There are also plenty of other anomalies elsewhere in the damage allocation* rules that once you start unpicking it you end up creating more problems than you solve. Accept it and move on... these aren't the droids you are looking for....

* e.g. The fact that a high damage out of arc hit on the front will hit front weapons and then work it's way through the vehicle until it comes out the back without hurting the side armour or weapons that are broad-side to you. The fact that not all spaces represent volume, rather the amount of volume they deny other components. The fact that random weapon fire will miraculously home in on the 1/3 space mini-rocket in the side mount of a 20ft van trailer just because it is the only weapon there etc.