Can Glamor fool a Brass Skeleton?

[hcobb]

"I am your master! The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated!"


http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/D...e_Fantasy_Trip


Calculation:

• $300/wk - 6 apprentices at $50/wk each
• $350/wk - A greater enchanter wage and cost of living
• $150/wk - Rent for wizard's laboratory
• $50/wk - Materials for wizard's laboratory
• $65 per week in common ingredients

Total cost per week is $915
40 weeks divided by DX 14 success roll is 44 weeks
Chance of avoiding rolling an 18 during 44 attempts is 81.5%
Net number of weeks of operation is then 54
54 times $915 is then $49k and setup, security and marketing costs eat up the entire profit and then some.


(Compare against a wizard with half as much experience who uses those same six apprentices to maintain an company of 70 ordinary skeletons whose strength sawtooths 20 to 10 and back again.)

[phiwum]

I'd say that a glamor spell doesn't work to take over a magical creation or reanimation.

Anyway, a brass skeleton doesn't play the same role as a skeleton. Create it and forget it. No need to top it off every week and be tied to a location. It protects your stash long after your death (which some folks would care about).

It's an interesting, different guardian. Though, of course, it's a rare wizard that could create one -- but wizards used to be more powerful back in the day, so there might be a few running around.

I rather like it, but if you reckon that wizards only care about fuelling their undead creations and maybe an occasional movie, then it would be a useless addition. The thing is that sort of reckoning leads to a necromancer-of-the-week campaign, rather than a monster-of-the-week as the gods intended.

[phiwum]

I do agree with Henry that 40 weeks is an awful long time to make a bronze skeleton, though a Zombie Ring is 100 weeks. I guess it takes time to make a permanent guard.

If he's right that the average "cost" is $49k, you wouldn't be seeing too many of these buggers.

Still, I don't worry about the time to create these things too often. I reckon that such details are mere suggestions which can be fudged if you want an NPC to make a bronze skeleton for some purpose.

(The Zombie Ring is priced at $3000 in ITL. It takes little ST per day to make one, but that sure is a low cost for something that takes so long. On the other hand, if it was very expensive, then a GM would be loath to use it since the PCs would be wealthy if they could kill just one ring-bearing Zombie.)

[hcobb]

Players: "How did that get there?"


GM:

1. There are no gods.
2. A wizard did it.
3. Wizards pay for extra attribute points with madness.

[Peter von Kleinsmid]

Originally Posted by phiwum

... a Zombie Ring is 100 weeks. ...

(The Zombie Ring is priced at $3000 in ITL. It takes little ST per day to make one, but that sure is a low cost for something that takes so long. ...

Actually, no, because there is a typo in the Zombie Ring entry on the magic item table in Legacy ITL. The contents of all of the columns to the right of Price should be one column further to the right.

no Notes
4 weeks to make
100 ST/day
no special ingredients other than the ring

[phiwum]

Ah, yes, I knew that once.

Thanks, Peter.

[Oneiros]

I'm not sure what the whole cost breakdown has to do with the title question, but I think the obvious answer is "Yes, of course Glamor would fool a brass skeleton, since the spell cannot be disbelieved".

The only exception I can see would be if the mage (or current owner) added Mage Sight to the already very expensive magic item. Then it would have a chance to pierce the Glamor, using the current owner's IQ.

Such a modification would certainly be beneficial generally, as then the owner could use that no-ST-cost Mage Sight when looking through the skeleton's eyes (not just to potentially see through a Glamor.)

I think the more interesting question (perhaps implied by Henry's topic title) is, would a Glamor of the brass skeleton's current owner fool it? I'd say "No", as just the appearance/voice of the owner it not enough; the telepathic bond is crucial to commanding it as well. And no, even if you consider Whisper to be telepathy, it's not the same as a telepathic bond.

[hcobb]

The telepathic bond only applies to the enchanter (as far as I can tell), so afterwards the command link is verbal with a chain of trust from the BS's observation of the handover.
It would be different if the enchanter then cast "Grant Command Seal" (Or whatever that is in Fate: Stay Night) onto the new owner as some sort of thrown spell.
At least with the zombie ring there is a physical contact between new owner, ring, and zombie. (Does this then count as an active magical item for the new owner or can this also be spoofed?)


Mimic + Whisper for an easy win?

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The telepathic bond only applies to the enchanter (as far as I can tell), so afterwards the command link is verbal with a chain of trust from the BS's observation of the handover.
It would be different if the enchanter then cast "Grant Command Seal" (Or whatever that is in Fate: Stay Night) onto the new owner as some sort of thrown spell.
At least with the zombie ring there is a physical contact between new owner, ring, and zombie. (Does this then count as an active magical item for the new owner or can this also be spoofed?)


Mimic + Whisper for an easy win?

There's certainly enough leeway to let the GM decide whether a brass skeleton can be fooled to take orders from someone not his owner. I tend to think that the ownership is a magical relation, not a matter of physical perception on the part of the brass skeleton (even if there is no telepathic link).

Do you have a lot of PCs running around with Mimic + Whisper? I mean, sure, it might occasionally be useful. I guess. So long as the target is not bumfuzzled as to why she's hearing a whisper from someone who isn't there. Maybe, if your GM allows it, this could be used for commanding a brass skeleton, but what else would it be good for?

For lots of situations, there's a good build that makes for an easy win. If the points spent are really good for very rare encounters but crap otherwise, then they're poorly spent.

[Oneiros]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The telepathic bond only applies to the enchanter (as far as I can tell), so afterwards the command link is verbal with a chain of trust from the BS's observation of the handover.
It would be different if the enchanter then cast "Grant Command Seal" (Or whatever that is in Fate: Stay Night) onto the new owner as some sort of thrown spell.
At least with the zombie ring there is a physical contact between new owner, ring, and zombie. (Does this then count as an active magical item for the new owner or can this also be spoofed?)


Mimic + Whisper for an easy win?

No, the telepathic bond seems to apply to the current owner:

"It will follow mental orders if the owner can see the skeleton. A change of ownership breaks the telepathic bond, though, and only its creator will ever be able to use the skeleton's senses remotely. "

It's just the remote viewing that is a creator-only perk.