Dagger Mastery question

[hcobb]

Can the various uber abilities of Dagger Mastery be stacked?

1. Does the bonus to defense apply in HTH?
2. Can you throw a dagger to disarm?
3. Can you disarm a foe's dagger in HTH?
4. Can you make a shrewd throw?
5. Can you make a shrewd blow in HTH?
6. Can you combine a Staff IV occult blast with a HTH attack with the same dagger?

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Can the various uber abilities of Dagger Mastery be stacked?

1. Does the bonus to defense apply in HTH?
2. Can you throw a dagger to disarm?
3. Can you disarm a foe's dagger in HTH?
4. Can you make a shrewd throw?
5. Can you make a shrewd blow in HTH?
6. Can you combine a Staff IV occult blast with a HTH attack with the same dagger?

Good questions. This is how I would handle them:

1. Does the bonus to defense apply in HTH?
No. I found nothing in ITL to rule either way. I don't see weapon knowledge or experience affect defensive moves in HTH. Not even UC's Evade affects HTH, so I definitely would not give it for weapon expertise/mastery.

2. Can you throw a dagger to disarm?
No. I expect a disarm attack to need more finesse than throwing. Also, throwing is specifically mentioned on Bonus to Damage while it is not mentioned under Disarming.

3. Can you disarm a foe's dagger in HTH?
No. I found nothing in ITL to rule either way. I expect a disarm attack to need more finesse than grappling will allow.

4. Can you make a shrewd throw?
No. Once again, I would say that throwing was mentioned under "Bonus to damage" but was not mentioned under "Shrewd Blow", so I would not allow it. Incidentally, may reconsider this one as long as the player is not trying to stack this on an already 5 or less role needed and it does not look to replace Dagger Marksmanship... maybe this would be a fun thing to allow. I would need to think it over more. But my initial take is "no".

5. Can you make a shrewd blow in HTH?
Yes, I like this. (I could be convinced otherwise)

6. Can you combine a Staff IV occult blast with a HTH attack with the same dagger?
Yes. I have yet to play with a Staff IV but the rules state the occult attack must be directed to the same target as your physical attack. I don't see why that would change in HTH. Meaning, yes you should be able to do both attacks in HTH also. (Once again the Dagger-staff is over powered. So many advantages and no disadvantages).

[JustAnotherJarhead]

5. Can you make a shrewd blow in HTH?
Yes, I like this. (I could be convinced otherwise)

THIS could potentially be very powerful with a dagger specialist with a very fine dagger in HTH.

Your HTH bonus to hit almost totally removes the Shrewd penalty, making HTH a brief encounter with a dagger specialist.

[JustAnotherJarhead]

6. Can you combine a Staff IV occult blast with a HTH attack with the same dagger?
Yes. I have yet to play with a Staff IV but the rules state the occult attack must be directed to the same target as your physical attack. I don't see why that would change in HTH. Meaning, yes you should be able to do both attacks in HTH also. (Once again the Dagger-staff is over powered. So many advantages and no disadvantages).

The first question I have: Can you cast spells in HTH?

I feel this is more along the thought process of casting a spell.

If untethered, Wizards would do well engage in HTH routinely, which...I don't feel is the intent of the staff special attack.

[hcobb]

The Staff occult blast is clearly activating a magic item, though it does take a spell casting to create the staff.

Reasons:

1. The ritual is point the stick, not wave your arms around and chat.

[phiwum]

I agree with Henry. The occult blast is described as an attack, not a spell. I guess that if the wizard is still holding his staff in HTH (which would be the case with a dagger staff) then he can use the occult blast against any opponent in his hex.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherJarhead

5. Can you make a shrewd blow in HTH?
Yes, I like this. (I could be convinced otherwise)

THIS could potentially be very powerful with a dagger specialist with a very fine dagger in HTH.

Your HTH bonus to hit almost totally removes the Shrewd penalty, making HTH a brief encounter with a dagger specialist.

Yes, this is a big advantage but not one that is easily earned. Having "Weapon Mastery: Knife" requires the user to have IQ 13, DX 14 and have spent 6 talent points on both Weapon Mastery and Weapon Expertise specifically for Knife alone. Then once all that is done, they still need to elect to accept DX -4 to do the shrewd blow.

As a GM, you may elect to interpret this as you will.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

3. Can you disarm a foe's dagger in HTH?
No. I found nothing in ITL to rule either way. I expect a disarm attack to need more finesse than grappling will allow.

Ironically, most of the knife disarms I know are grappling moves. There's a bunch of them by Fiore from approx 1350-1410, and having practiced a few, they're purpose-made dagger disarms using grappling principles. And at least the art I studied for while had a whole body of joint-lock based knife disarms at the half-black sash level.

You may still be right about "no," but "grappling" lacking finesse doesn't seem the right argument. It may be that HTH lacks finesse in TFT (or is assumed to) and you need one or more of the UC talents to imply that level of study.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

3. Can you disarm a foe's dagger in HTH?
No. I found nothing in ITL to rule either way. I expect a disarm attack to need more finesse than grappling will allow.

I found it desirable to include disarming maneuvers by developing house rules for grappling that are included in an expansion and redefinition of the HTH rules.

[Axly Suregrip]

Thank you Shostak and DouglasCole for your correction.

I agree it would be more of a UC skill to disarm in HTH than a knife master skill.