GURPS BattleTech, working out heatsinks and the effects of heat buildup

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rupert

30 seconds under thrust will actually get you quite a distance.

Yeah, though if it takes 30 seconds to blow up no-one is gonna be surprised.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Basically, yes. The majority of the Inner Sphere was super-low tech. The core worlds were around TL 7~8 with a little 9. Only Earth, and ComStar enclaves, were at high tech.

Are you not counting factories from the Star League era that were still in operation? There were multiple worlds that still trickled out 'Mechs and fusion engines and you can't build those at TL9.

Laser pistols and rifles were also decently common and Gurps makes those TL10. Of course slugthrowers were more common but a TL for building "needlers" is also higher than 8. There were mltiple sources for 'Mech weapons too.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Are you not counting factories from the Star League era that were still in operation? There were multiple worlds that still trickled out 'Mechs and fusion engines and you can't build those at TL9.

There were fewer 'Mech Factories than there are inhabited worlds. And most of those worlds were still TL 5~6, only the Star League Factories were ultratech. They could run the equipment, but they couldn't fix them or build new ones.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Laser pistols and rifles were also decently common and Gurps makes those TL10. Of course slugthrowers were more common but a TL for building "needlers" is also higher than 8. There were mltiple sources for 'Mech weapons too.

Not really. But even still, they were Star League left-overs, only the core worlds could make new ones.

Again, this was a post-apocalyptic setting. And the Star League made stuff to last. None of this planned obsolescence in their military gear. Sure, you may have a militia equipped with Star League-era laser rifles, but they sure didn't make them, or even know how to maintain them other than blowing the dust out. If one broke, it was gone.

BattleTech was a strange bird.

Originally Posted by MechWarrior 1st Edition, pg 8

"By the end of the Second Succession War, the Successor States' overall level of technological knowledge had sunk to a level barely above that of Earth in the early 20th century."

[Mark Skarr]

I just noticed that my (barley legible) 1st printing MechWarrior 1st Edition book actually says "20st Century," and all my other copies say "21st Century."

Hmm, I wonder if that was supposed to be 21st Century all along.

That is not the only discrepancy I've seen between printings though.

[scc]

I'm pretty sure that most worlds, at least in the IS, have access to 80's technology, so TL7. I'd say make that beyond that BT has named TL's of Age of War, Star League, and Clan.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

I'm pretty sure that most worlds, at least in the IS, have access to 80's technology, so TL7.

80s technology is early TL8 in 4e. 70s technology would be late TL7 but 1940s would be early TL7. I never got the feeling that any of the worlds in BT were WWII or Korean War period-like.

A quick Google has tanks with autoloadign main guns (which is sort of like a BT "autocannon") starting with the T-64 but with that model being not fully reliable. I doubt any BT world that can produce simple autocannon-armed tanks is producing anything less capable than a fully developed T-72.

So I'd go with TL8 (which is where real world tech stood when BT was first published).

[Rolando]

I always thought that BT at that age was something like a mix of TL's.

For some things it is TL8 and for some it is TL7 or less.

Sensors are very low tech, as well as computers, but weapons are super tech. Even the planets with functional SL factories and academies.

Battletech is like steampunk and other retro-futuristic settings, it's just 1980's retro-futurism instead of 1880's (in the case of steam punk).

Most worlds during the time may be TL8 in weapons, TL9 in armor (I think the "advanced" ablative armor in Battletech is kind of TL9, but personal armor is mostly TL8 or less) and TL6 in sensors and TL7 in targeting systems and comms.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rolando

I always thought that BT at that age was something like a mix of TL's.

For some things it is TL8 and for some it is TL7 or less.

Sensors are very low tech, as well as computers, but weapons are super tech. Even the planets with functional SL factories and academies.

Battletech is like steampunk and other retro-futuristic settings, it's just 1980's retro-futurism instead of 1880's (in the case of steam punk).

Most worlds during the time may be TL8 in weapons, TL9 in armor (I think the "advanced" ablative armor in Battletech is kind of TL9, but personal armor is mostly TL8 or less) and TL6 in sensors and TL7 in targeting systems and comms.

Battletech was first released in 1984. At that point there's no 'retro' in it being a future of the 80s. Which also contextualizes the 'low' computer technology.

Also, they're certainly not TL6 in sensors. TL6 sensors would be completely useless for detecting battlemechs in terrain. My High Tech is a little mixed on whether RADAR is TL6 or TL7 but even early TL7 radars couldn't handle picking up ground vehicles. Night-vision and thermographic systems are also TL7. TL6 barely has 'sensors' to speak of besides SONAR.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Battletech was first released in 1984. At that point there's no 'retro' in it being a future of the 80s. Which also contextualizes the 'low' computer technology.

Also, they're certainly not TL6 in sensors. TL6 sensors would be completely useless for detecting battlemechs in terrain. My High Tech is a little mixed on whether RADAR is TL6 or TL7 but even early TL7 radars couldn't handle picking up ground vehicles. Night-vision and thermographic systems are also TL7. TL6 barely has 'sensors' to speak of besides SONAR.

HT pegs radar as TL7, but the effect was observed in the early 1900s, so a very primitive version could've been made at TL6 - huge, search only, and only good for detecting large aircraft well above the ground and large metal ships in open water.

[Mark Skarr]

The main issue you're all forgetting is that BattleMechs are ultratech. The rest of the world isn't. Most of the population doesn't live at high-tech, they lived at relatively mundane tech. After seeing Firefly I felt that was a good way of showing the Inner Sphere. Some really high ultratech but the vast majority of stuff was low-tech easily-sustainable.

Early 20th century would be TL5~6. I would call WWII-era "mid-20th century."

You're welcome to play however you want, but as other quotes have pointed out, BattleTech wasn't a high-tech setting until they started retconning it for the Clans/post-clan invasion.

If you lived on an agro world, you probably were TL5, if not TL4 with TL11+ Agromechs working along side you.

From Lostech:

Originally Posted by Lostech, pg 7

. . . but by-and-large things are pretty much as they have been for a millennium; a person transported into the thirty-first century from the twentieth might feel right at home.

As everything seems to reference the twentieth century, I'm thinking that the First Printing should have been 20th, and all others were misprinted up in error.

Originally Posted by Lostech, pg 8

On the low end of the spectrum, citizens of backwater and Periphery worlds continue to struggle. Daily life can be a challenge for these people, as modern conveniences are often too expensive to transport in via JumpShip, or in some cases, simply unavailable. To the technological "upper crust," the conditions these people live in might seem appalling, or at the very least, deprived.