A knight on the Town

[tbone]

Another thread had this interesting comment, deserving of a reply in its own thread:

Originally Posted by corwyn

The Knight especially. I think it's the weakest template, in that he has almost nothing to do out of combat.

The knight is the sole "pure fighter" among the professions, so that's pretty true. But it's not all dire for a knight about Town.

Savoir-Faire deals with nobles but also covers Savior-Faire (Military) in DFRPG, so it can smooth over encounters with soldiers and guards (tolls, contraband checks, curfew enforcement, and "make way for the lord's carriage, you peasants"). Yeah, the bard will have the skill at an even higher level, but some soldier-types will prefer to deal with "one of us".

The knight's appearance will catch the attention of anyone selling arms and armor; the PC should get lots of offers in marketplaces (and back alleys). Connoisseur (Weapons) and Armory will identify the junk (or the rare outstanding deal). Catching a scammer hawking $50 goblin swords as heirloom pieces gives the PC a chance to roleplay. (I don't know that Leadership is the right skill for commanding a dishonest peddler to turn himself in to the Guard, but it sounds fun. If it doesn't work, there's Wrestling to frog-march the peddler to a guard post, and Savoir-Faire and Leadership to get the lazy guards to do something with the petty crook.)

Then there's a pretty good Carousing skill. A knight should get plenty of attention in the taverns. Wizards and druids are weird, clerics are dull (or so drinkers assume), and barbarians are foreign, but every commoner or soldier wants to hear (or swap) tales of battles and bandit-rousting with a scarred warrior.

I wouldn't object to adding Teaching to the knight's template. Where do knightly skills come from, if not through knights and sergeants training squires and recruits? Teaching opportunities for cleric and wizard delvers might be pretty rare, but I picture banging wooden swords as the Town version of street basketball, and a knight could spend all day giving pointers to the younglings. (Befriending urchins is fun. They're great at little missions like "Find me in the tavern if you see the half-orc in the green cloak", and they work for copper.)

Festivals should offer friendly uses for combat skills, like mock battles and wrestling tournaments. (Followed by invitations to carouse.)

Then there are the Town-friendly skills of Gambling, Heraldry, Intimidation, and Streetwise, though a knight's skill levels dampen the appeal. (The trick to gambling is to use Streetwise to find the right back-alley den, Heraldry to identify the fellow knights in there, and Savoir-Faire to get a seat at their table – a table of blustering punters who back their bets with lousy Gambling-9. : )

Final thought on skills: DFRPG embraces resource management, gear shopping, and team-building, which makes strategic planning for quests important. I don't know what skill best covers these matters of logistics, but mebbe the little-used Strategy skill – a knightly specialty – could be given the job. A simple idea for the mechanics: Before the mission, let one PC roll vs Strategy; success means the GM hints at smart choices for gear, hirelings, or other prep.

Anyone else have ideas on making knightly non-combat abilities more useful in town?

[Kalzazz]

I admit I view the swashbuckler as far more of a 'pure fighter' chassis than a knight

A knights purchase of Born War Leader and sundry skills definitely weighs heavier on the not combat side of things

This is interesting on Knights and Non Combat https://dungeonfantastic.blogspot.co...ng-to.html?m=1

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by tbone

The knight is the sole "pure fighter" among the professions, so that's pretty true. But it's not all dire for a knight about Town.

Great post. In my experience, Savoire Faire goes a long way in town. With a party of overconfident, impulsive misfits, having a few people who can smooth over social gaffes is both useful and fun. Even though the bard will outshine the knight, often the party splits up or get into multiple social scenes where the knight can help out. The only skill I would add to your list is Riding. This may provide opportunities for chatting with stablehands, betting on or participating in competitions, schmoozing with wealthy breeders, etc.

I also wonder about the usefulness of knights during non-combat scenes in adventures (but outside of town). They are strong, so any challenge requiring strength is a possibility. They are potentially ok at climbing and stealth, but wouldn't be my first choice. Pretty good at forced entry. Armory and Connoisseur come in handy when evaluating loot. Leadership isn't great with most PC groups but earns its points if henchmen are a feature.

One passive use that knights have played in some of my games is having enough DR to handle surprises: ambushes, traps, falling rocks, walls of fire, etc. Often the knight in the party can absorb enough damage to make it to places that the rest of the group can't reach (at least without expending magical resources). But this veers into combat territory, which is obviously their forte.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I admit I view the swashbuckler as far more of a 'pure fighter' chassis than a knight

Good point; I hadn't given that comparison much thought. The knight is obviously more of a "pure fighter" if power and damage and DR are the criteria, but against, say, a bunch of light and fast foes, a well-designed swashbuckler may do better.

My main thought, though, was that the knight template really pushes the fighter thing with combat-focused traits; there's almost nothing else available to spend on! Whereas the swashbuckler - as suggested in customization notes an elsewhere - is free to go the route of the foppish face-man, or the parkour artist (mainly by buying the expensive Perfect Balance), or the rogue who just lucks his way through everything (by blowing a ton of points on Extraordinary Luck, Serendipity, and Daredevil).

Or, yes, the swashbuckler can sink those copious advantage points into ST and combat advantages to become a fighter that rivals the knight.

Also: Thanks for the link! The article points out non-combat uses of knightly brawn, which I think is a good addition to my thoughts on making use of knights' mental gifts.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Dalin

Leadership isn't great with most PC groups but earns its points if henchmen are a feature.

Yes. If some PC has good Leadership skill, it's almost a shame not to get hirelings.

Which reminds me of a point I forgot to add: Realistic Leadership isn't just about rallying and commanding people in action; there's also a component of sizing up people and judging their capabilities, after observing their performance in action or even before that if possible.

If the GM is creative in varying hireling quality (e.g., tossing mental cases, resume padders, and thieves into the bunch), Leadership should help in devising questions and tests for potential hires, separating talkers from doers, and detecting who's about to snap after that last dragon encounter. The skill shouldn't replace key uses of Detect Lies, Interrogation, or Psychology (Psychology for people, if DFRPG offered that as a skill), but should at least act as a complementary roll whenever sizing up someone's fitness for a job.

[WhiteLily]

In the game I'm running, I'm giving the Knight access to Charisma.

The fighters of first edition got to have castles and what not as they leveled, and many historical military leaders have been quite Charismatic.

[Kalzazz]

I tend to feel knights and Wealth go together so I'd allow that

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=152812

[Anders]

Sex Appeal is based on HT, so a Knight who is willing to step out of his comfort zone could use their impeccable physique to charm the pants off people.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Anders

Sex Appeal is based on HT, so a Knight who is willing to step out of his comfort zone could use their impeccable physique to charm the pants off people.

Ooh, yes. This would require a quirk point invested in the skill (since it is not on the template), but it could be worth it.

If most knights are wearing heavy armor, I wonder if they could invest in a suit of armor that makes them look buffer than they are. Who could see the modest beer gut behind the chiseled steel six-pack?

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Dalin

Ooh, yes. This would require a quirk point invested in the skill (since it is not on the template), but it could be worth it.

If most knights are wearing heavy armor, I wonder if they could invest in a suit of armor that makes them look buffer than they are. Who could see the modest beer gut behind the chiseled steel six-pack?

Is Styling a thing in DFRPG? +1 CF for +1 reaction, +4 CF for +2 reaction, +3 CF for +3 reaction.

Also, breastplates with pecs and six-packs were definitely a thing.