On Bent Knee: Shadowrun Cyberware?

[Kage2020]

It's been a long time and, via Googling, I've come across various threads and sites that deal with Shadowrun cyberware and builds. Quite a lot of it is for 3e, but I'm wondering if anyone on the forum happens to have--or know of--a build list out there in the wilds?

I did do a quick Google, but it's Chrimble and I might have missed some of the highlights, especially if they tackle the thorny issue of Essence loss.

In hope, thanks.

[AlexanderHowl]

There is a lot of disagreement because of the difference in capabilities between Shadowrun cyberware and GURPS cyberware. In general, each +1 to Attribute in Shadowrun should probably translate to +2 to Attribute in GURPS.

As for Essence, I would make it its own Attribute, with a default value of 12, and just double the Essence cost of cyberware, with every full two points lost giving a -1 to social skills, a -1 to self-control numbers, and a -1 reaction penalty as the character drifts further from humanity. For example, a character that lost 10 Essence would suffer a -5 to social skills, a -5 to self-control numbers, and a -5 reaction penalty.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

There is a lot of disagreement because of the difference in capabilities between Shadowrun cyberware and GURPS cyberware. In general, each +1 to Attribute in Shadowrun should probably translate to +2 to Attribute in GURPS.
.

It's not just that. There are probably too many fundamental differences in game mechanics between Gurps and shadowrun for direct porti9ng of gear.

For example, the sequncing of who goes when in SR is central and what are multiple maneuvers in Gurps is built-in as a character option. In Gurps it's an exotic capability costing 100 cp a whack. At the least you need to assess if you want "maneuvers" (essentially multiple Turns) or just "Attacks". Extra Attack (Multi-strike) is only 30 cp instead of 100 for a base.

Then there are things of great value in Gurps that didn't quite exist in SR. Like Base Speed. In SR it woudl only be what's Ground Move in Gurps but Base Speed is the foundation of your Dodge in Gurps.

So if you're simply trying to directly port from SR you could end up paying too much and/or not getting a number of very valuable things.

If I was going to try and do Gurps SR I wouldn't try and emulate SR game mechanics at all. You certainly don't want to try and emulate SR's virtually non-existant system for melee combat. SR's gun ssytem is better than its' melee ssytem but Gurps is better than SR. So you replace sR with gurps for both of them.

It's more a matter of taste with magic but I'd replace SR magic with one or more Gurps systerms too.

Which leads us abck to humana ugmentaions and I'd use the ones native to gurps in UT (and very importantly) Bio-tech rather than attempt to adapt SR cybergear. You'll probably end up with a better functioning character at any give point level that way.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If I was going to try and do Gurps SR I wouldn't try and emulate SR game mechanics at all.

That's mostly how I handled it. Just went for the look and feel of Shadowrun and tossed most of the game mechanics. I ended up doing magic-as-powers for it, and making heavy use of Martial Arts and Gun Fu, which has worked pretty well for my group.

[Kage2020]

For the sake of clarity, my initial goal was to look for a repository of builds.

With that said?

I'm more than willing to discuss specifics, but to do so I'm clearly going to have to share my thoughts/builds with respect to how I'm approaching the setting and, more importantly (for me), how I'm approaching the meta-setting (Earthdawn/Shadowrun/etc.).

If my specifics don't get in the way of your interest, then cool and my deepest appreciation. And if they do? My sincere apologies.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

There is a lot of disagreement because of the difference in capabilities between Shadowrun cyberware and GURPS cyberware.

I'm really interested in any interpretations, regardless of their specific design intent. Sometimes just looking at what people create based upon their own assumptions can be really interesting and informative.

As a quick example, Shadowrun's skillwires should come with some interesting disadvantages about predictability, fatigue use, and inconvenient effects like headaches. (Depending on the "grade" of cyberware, of course.)

For me, though, I'm not wedded to trying to emulate Shadowrun mechanics in GURPS but, rather, create a "good enough" interpretation. After all, Shadowrun magic doesn't do a really good job of matching its 'fluff' (IMO).

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

As for Essence, I would make it its own Attribute, with a default value of 12, and just double the Essence cost of cyberware, with every full two points lost giving a -1 to social skills, a -1 to self-control numbers, and a -1 reaction penalty as the character drifts further from humanity. For example, a character that lost 10 Essence would suffer a -5 to social skills, a -5 to self-control numbers, and a -5 reaction penalty.

I'm looking at Essence (or Magic) as a "Fifth Attribute" (Pyramid 3/120, "The Fifth Attribute"). As I'm not too bothered about numerical parity, I'm fine with GURPS standard average of 10. That and I have calculators and spreadsheets. (Yuks!)

With that said, I'm liking what you're saying. If I may, based upon the setting information, I'm not sure that a linear approach is the best for how I'm coming to it, but it's a good reference in terms of a general effect.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

It's not just that. There are probably too many fundamental differences in game mechanics between Gurps and shadowrun for direct porti9ng of gear.

FWIW, I'm using RPM with Effect Shaping (Rice, C.R. [2014]. Alternative Ritual Path Magic. Pyramid 3, 66, pp. 4-15). This is coupled with an "Elemental Correspondence" framework (Western Magic Tradition) means that I'm generally not that interested in directly emulating Shadowrun.

"Good Enough" is good enough for me. I'm building this thing in GURPS but with an eye to emulating the fiction rather than the mechanics. It seems that we share this perspective?

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

It's more a matter of taste with magic but I'd replace SR magic with one or more Gurps systerms too.

See the above.

Of course, I'm still trying to figure out all the different permutations but, well, hey-ho.

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

That's mostly how I handled it. Just went for the look and feel of Shadowrun and tossed most of the game mechanics. I ended up doing magic-as-powers for it, and making heavy use of Martial Arts and Gun Fu, which has worked pretty well for my group.

And that sounds awesome. I wanted "elements" to have more of an impact with magic than some of the other solutions because it was important in some of the 'fluff' (e.g., Earthdawn's elven approach to magic etc.). It just seemed to track across the various settings.

So with all that said, a reminder:

• I'm looking for cool cyberware builds from Shadowrun.
• Cool cyberware builds in general are awesome.
• I'm note converting Shadowrun mechanics, but rather trying to do something that emulates a little bit more of non-D&D elements and how they integrate into metaphysics/etc.
• You can also reach me on the GURPS Discord. :D

[AlexanderHowl]

One thing to consider is that maximum Magery (RPM) should be equal to Essence (12 in the suggested framework).

[Jinumon]

Originally Posted by Kage2020

I'm looking at Essence (or Magic) as a "Fifth Attribute" (Pyramid 3/120, "The Fifth Attribute"). As I'm not too bothered about numerical parity, I'm fine with GURPS standard average of 10. That and I have calculators and spreadsheets. (Yuks!)

I was going to suggest "The Fifth Attribute." I think it's great and can model it very well.

In addition, I would highly recommend taking a look at Mutations from GURPS After the End: Wastelanders. Though I have yet to make the conversion myself, I think a reverse-engineering and retooling of the Freakishness stat could work perfectly for the illustrated spiritual, social, and mental degradation that results from excessive body-modification. Call it something like Inhuman [-1/level], attach appropriate levels to all available modifications, and have it apply levels of Distinct Features, Social Stigma, Essence penalties, and cyberpsychotic mental disadvantages as you accrue levels of the trait.

Just my two cents,

Jinumon

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Kage2020

For the sake of clarity, my initial goal was to look for a repository of builds.

I'm really interested in any interpretations, regardless of their specific design intent. Sometimes just looking at what people create based upon their own assumptions can be really interesting and informative.

As a quick example, Shadowrun's skillwires should come with some interesting disadvantages about predictability, fatigue use, and inconvenient effects like headaches. (Depending on the "grade" of cyberware, of course.)

• I'm looking for cool cyberware builds from Shadowrun.
• Cool cyberware builds in general are awesome.
• I'm note converting Shadowrun mechanics, but rather trying to do something that emulates a little bit more of non-D&D elements and how they integrate into metaphysics/etc.
• You can also reach me on the GURPS Discord. :D

You're still not being as clear as would be really helpful.

For example, you keep talking about "builds". Are you intending to build all of your cyberware with the Powers system and have your players "buy" this cyberware with cp rather than nuyen? Or maybe cp _and_ $ (nuyen)? Neither is the only way to do this sort of thing in Gurps.

This sort of thing is all GM decision and the sort of ground rules you should make explicit.

There's still the the issue of directly porting SR cybergear to Gurps even if you're only doing it with names and fluff text.

Take for example "Skillwires". You want different levels of these with perhaps only the highest grade Skillwires being bug-free? <shrug> My advice is not to bother.

Gurps has a totally different balance of gameplay. Gurps has many more Skills but nobody needs all of them. Skills are also cheap to start with and the purchase of them is usually not very restricted. Especially if characters are payign cp for Skillwires it will only be cheaper than buying Skills directly by the percentage of Limitations placed on them.

The expense of buying those Skills is also not likely to be the highest item on a Street Sam's point budget. My expectation is that it would be muhc more expensive to buy up his Dex and HP to superhuman levels than to get a decent set of Skills.

So he's probably not going to be looking for Skilwires and you've wasted the time put into designing them. Unless perhaps they'll be available for $ only and he has a lot of that.

Before you can have other people help you design cyberware they'll need to know what your ground rules are for how 'ware will work in the campaign. and what is the intended power level and how many pts characters will have to try and reach that power level.

Another quick piece of advice is that if characters do have to pay cp for 'ware never mind the "Essence" stat. You'll already be limiting how much 'ware they can have with the cp. You don't need to limit again with lost Essence.

Even if yu want to keep them from having lots of 'ware _and_ lots of magic cp limit that too. Cp that are spent on the one can't be spent again on the other.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Kage2020

For the sake of clarity, my initial goal was to look for a repository of builds.

Here's what I did for it.