What do you want for the 35-year anniversary?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Rolando

What about a big marketing campaign as mstlaurent says, also make a GURPS month and schedule a lot of GURPS online gaming sessions.

Or highlight, at least through the Daily Illuminator and blogs a number of online games and gather videos from various GMs and post them on the SJG Youtube or GURPS channel.

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Rolando

What about a big marketing campaign as mstlaurent says, also make a GURPS month and schedule a lot of GURPS online gaming sessions.

First I hope I don´t step on anybodys toes. Because I´m new to the forum and non native speaker.
As for marketing posting some play sessions at their You Tube channel will be nice, maybe some scenarions for starters. I couldn´d find some there. Considering how tight the personal situation is, I fear that posting weekly a part of a campain is wishfull thinking.
More ways to pay at the online store would also be good. In the EU a lot of people have no credit card, and don´t use paypal. A pay safe card is available at most supermarkets for anybody for example.
Another suggestions is another free adventure, maybe you put it in a package with the GURPS Lite versions. what about converting the adventure of the basic book 3rd Ed for this, or one from the adventure books for this edition.
Maybe you can bring some of the old worldbooks etc to the current edition, yes there is a free help for this but why not give it a try.
VTT seems to be a big chance even when Steam and the publisher of the VTT want there share. You will get the attention of a lot of potential customers with this. What about a Kickstarter campaign for this ?
Last but not least I love GURPS a lot, but if you ever update to another version, could you consider changing to a metric system ? I´m fully aware that all formulas in your books are for this, and it makes transmitting the stuff into a possible edition 4.1 harder. That´s the system which even the US military uses for good reasons, it makes calculating and communication with other NATO partners a lot easier. Of cours only SJG know from which parts of the world the buyers are. At least in germany I once had a play session where we looked more into the tables to calculate something then playing.
My biggest wish for SJG ? Reaching TL9+, aka keep going the next 35 years or more.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This speaks to a key disconnect here: That between "established fans" and "potential new fans."*

I get the distinction but the issue is potential new fans aren't fans and none of their money is being spent on GURPS, and you were talking about fans spending money. I.e. you are going to have to give potential new fans something they want to spend money on. (but that's a risk if it comes with a heavy investment cost). It's the usual dilemma established fans need less persuading to spend money on GURPS, but there's not enough of them and they need stuff they don't already have, and the scrapping the bottom of the barrel metaphor applies in that direction as well! vs. there are (hopefully*) far more potential new fans out there but they need more persuading. How much money do you spend chasing new revenue vs. chasing what's left of the old revenue



And there is of course the distinct possibility that since SJGames has other products in different markets with different revenue, money spent chasing more GURPS revenues in eth RPG market is not money well spent in comparison


*market size, and GURPS' place in it is always a potential issue of course!

Originally Posted by Kromm

If you go to forums where nearly all of the participants are established fans and you ask, "What do you want for the 35th anniversary?", you're going to get answers that lean toward revised and new rules. The audience consists of individuals who've already bought much, most, or all of what they want to buy from the existing library. What they seek are updates to things that are in their eyes outdated, fixes to rules that are in their opinion broken, and new content that is in their view missing.

All of which is how it should be!

However (and it's a big "however"), while it's nice to imagine special anniversary products as a kind of "Thank you!" to established fans, that's only a practical approach if established fans are numerous and spending a ton of money, and the focus is on retaining them and keeping them happy. When the number of fans and their spending have tailed off alarmingly – so much so that the company has had to regroup around completely different products – that changes the goal of special anniversary products. Now they serve to reignite the fire, to draw new fans.*

So while the answers here are absolutely valid for those giving them, they tend to fall far from what the company actually needs to be doing. For the most part, potential new fans* don't care about updates or fixes to existing rules (they don't know those rules, or why they'd need updating or fixing!), nor do they care about yet more content (they're new, so there's already a huge library of that!). They do care about the game having a fanbase they can play with, creators who can answer their questions, and a company that cares enough about the game to make it look like a going concern.

Thus, that's what those of us who work here have to focus on. As it happens, I think that getting GURPS onto VTTs would be a step in the direction I'm talking about: People to game with! A game that's using this decade's technology! And yes, we do talk with people who are doing that kind of thing.

Whereas something like GURPS Vehicles . . . oof. A ton of work to make happy the subset of established fans who already know the system well enough to feel comfortable with a design system that would've been at home in the 1980s or 1990s. I'm not putting it down or saying anything bad about it (I edited the previous edition, and I am a gamer from the late 1970s), but it wouldn't be the kind of "anniversary present" that GURPS needs right now.

—

* To be clear, when I say "new fans," I do not mean the relatively small group of longtime gamers who've looked at GURPS sometime in the past 35 years and said, "Yeah . . . no." I'm talking about grabbing a bigger cut of the far larger number of gamers who start their RPG journey every year, and who don't even know what a "GURPS" is.

Yep that's why my suggestion was a shiny "new"** 35th anniversary edition of the basic game on kickstarter and then on Drivthru. Something for old fans to commemorate with but something for potential new fans as well and something that raises the profile of the game if marketed. All at the same time I.e. trying to expand the fan base and thus expand the potential revenue stream. But at the same time making the point that there's a long and full body of work behind it stretching back 35 years.

(I agree GURPS vehicles is not going to directly increase your fanbase, and since it will only appeal to a subset of your current fanbase will generate a limited return on investment even in terms of the current existing revenue streams. I.e. is a niche, within a niche, within a niche)



**really just the old one with some colour plates, new covers and maybe a new intro and appendices section so you are not re-ordering/editing the books

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I get the distinction but the issue is potential new fans aren't fans and none of their money is being spent on GURPS, and you were talking about fans spending money. I,e you going ti have to give potential new fans something they want to spend money on. (but that's a risk if it comes with a heavy investment cost) it's the usual dilemma established fans need less persuading to spend money on GURPS, but there's not enough of them and they need stuff they don't already have, there are (hopefully*) far more potential new fans out there but they need more persuading. How much money do you spend chasing new revenue vs what left of the old revenue


*market size is a potential issue



Yep that's why my suggestion was a shiny "new"** 35th anniversary edition of the basic game on kickstarter and then on Drivthru. Something for old fans to commemorate with but something for potential new fans as well and something that raises the profile of the game if marketed. All at the same time I.e. trying to expand the fan base and thus expand the potential revenue stream. But at the same time making the point that there's a long and full body of work behind it stretching back 35 years.

**really just the the old one with some colour plates, new covers and maybe a new intro and appendices section so you not re-ordering the books

Or why I suggested upthread a facelift of Gurps Lite...
Likewise, just touching up the content but giving it some colour, a cleaner less compact layout such as in DFRPG, and a nice 35th anniversary intro.
I doubt it will be mass printed in offset in the near future, so keeping it to 32 page is probably unnecessary anyway.

Sinking time (=money) in a free product may be a bad idea, but perhaps a small KS to pay for it, along with 35th anniversary themed marketing stuff ?
I would pay for it, but would enough people do ???

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

Or why I suggested upthread a facelift of Gurps Lite...
Likewise, just touching up the content but giving it some colour, a cleaner less compact layout such as in DFRPG, and a nice 35th anniversary intro.
I doubt it will be mass printed in offset in the near future, so keeping it to 32 page is probably unnecessary anyway.

Sinking time (=money) in a free product may be a bad idea, but perhaps a small KS to pay for it, along with 35th anniversary themed marketing stuff ?
I would pay for it, but would enough people do ???

Do em both at the same time, chuck out Gurps lite with a bit of a "35th Anniversary" cover for free (try not to do much else that will take time and money as this is a give away), make sure you use it to point everyone to the 35th edition characters and campaigns Kickstarter / Drivethru

I.e. Make the first be not only the intro/taster for the system it has always been, but also a flyer for the 35th Anniversary Ed. book/PDF campaign.

any 35th Anniversary marketing you do mentions both.

[Gumby Bush]

Regarding the perennial marketing issue:

Is there any ad-copy about GURPS (or DFRPG) included with other SJG products? Munchkin, for instance? I don't know, since I only really follow GURPS.

I wonder whether it would be worthwhile to reduce the cost of the Basic Set to be comparable to the competition's costs? I think GURPS is worth its current price (~$70 in dead tree), but the hardcovers are a bit expensive for some people... Like, if I were entering now, it would definitely delay me, and I would probably try to make do with systems with a lower "entry fee," Like Genesys (~$56 in dead tree format) or Savage Worlds (~$60 in dead tree), even though, from the inside, I think GURPS does the job way better, more thoroughly, and in such a way as to make customization easier. The problem, of course, is that if you don't get inside because of sticker shock, you miss out... And the PDF price comparison is worse, since most competitors have PDF versions available for free (I found the core Genesys rules in PDF for free barely trying, D&D rules are similarly easily available).

I am aware of GURPS Lite, and maybe what is needed is mostly better visibility for that, but I do think the entry fee issue is something to consider. Yes, GURPS is worth $10 more then any competitor, but customers can't always tell that from just the free stuff available to them. One might hope that reducing the cost of the Basic Set would make up for itself in new fans buying more supplements.

You would have to do a price reduction carefully, of course: you don't want to be misinterpreted as preparing to close down GURPS!

So, some kind of ad campaign like this:
After 35 years of GURPS 4e, we have outlived every other edition of every system. Our core rules have paid for themselves, so we are now able to offer them for a reduced price for a new generation of role players. The core rules provide everything you need to play in any world you desire, and, with 35 years of supplements, 35 years of past players' experiences, and an active community on the SJGames Forums and Mook's GURPS Discord Server, if you want to expand your game in new directions or tweak it to your personal preferences, there is always guidance available.

The Fourth Edition of GURPS has proven to be among the most stable systems in TTRPG history, and we expect to continue to expand our offerings for this edition of this system for many years to come.

[brianfb]

GURPS biggest shortfall of imo is a good fantasy beastiary. The one from 3rd edition was terrible. Needs a large variety of off the shelf monsters of varying power levels. The 3rd edition had too many unique beasts from legends that weren’t that useable.

[AlexanderHowl]

I love GURPS, but it requires a knowledgeable GM to keep new players from running for the hills when they see character creation. That is why I think that we need a straightforward version designed for older children with plug-and-play genre templates, universal lens, advancement packages, and equipment packages. The only initially customizable things in the plug and play stuff should be 5 CP of Perks and -5 CP of Quirks for the PCs, just to give each character some individual flavor. You should also include rules for customizing everthing else when people feel comfortable with the system, but they should come after the plug-and-play stuff.

For example, you could design twenty genre templates, twenty universal lens, twenty advancement packages, and twenty equipment packages per setting. A player would choose one of each for a beginning character for adventures in that setting and be capable of playing within twenty minutes (long enough to pick their Perks and Quirks). Now, the players will likely want to eventually customize their PCs later, but they will probably have enjoyed the system enough by that time that they are willing to take the time and effort to make their character shine.

[CarrionPeacock]

The alternative character creation methods seem in Action 4: Specialists and Pointless X series could work well to introduce new players to GURPS.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by CarrionPeacock

The alternative character creation methods seem in Action 4: Specialists and Pointless X series could work well to introduce new players to GURPS.

How true. :-)