[Guns] What does accuracy represent?

[solidsingularity]

In GUPRS what conglomeration of factors is the ACC stat meant to represent?
Is it the actual minute of angle rating of the gun?
Is it how well the gun handles range?
Is it a collection of this and other factors?
I asked this question because I am having trouble understanding which guns get which accuracy stats and this becomes a large problem when trying to add guns that are not in the books.

[Refplace]

As I understand it ACC does not include sights, which can add to ACC, including Telescopic Sights which specifically grant a bonus limited to the base ACC.
Barrel length and rifling are a factor as they help to stabilize the bullet so it fly's more straight. Longer barrels also enable higher speeds.
Grip and any other inherent part of the weapon that increases the stability of the shooting platform. IMO Bracing should add to ACC not skill for the same reason.
Quality can increase ACC through improving the action and barrel.
The action also has an influence, though in GURPS that is really applied to recoil. A bolt action rifle is more accurate than any other type, everything else being equal.

Some accessories can also improve ACC, while others add to skill.

[solidsingularity]

So from your description, it is the actual minute of angle accuracy of the gun and not just the maximum effective range of the weapon correct?
If this is the case then why Does the Remington 700 a bolt action rifle have the same accuracy as the FN Minimi an open Bolt machine gun?
Is it because they both have relatively similar affective ranges?
Also, is the equipment modifier "fine accurate" included in the stats of the guns listed in high-tech that are renowned as being high-quality accurate guns?

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by solidsingularity

So from your description, it is the actual minute of angle accuracy of the gun and not just the maximum effective range of the weapon correct?

I think it's more a conglomeration of factors. Energy weapons use very similar frames to slug-throwers and if it were just minute of angle accuracy you should see nearly identical ACC scores from similar stability of trajectory and frame stability of the weapons. Bullet drop would certainly impact accuracy as we think of it in games but Lasers have phenomenal accuracy and I think part of that is that the near miss effect of a beam rather than a single moment of impact. My accuracy is better because if I don't land my shot where I want, I can gently nudge that beam that way. Gun sights can double the acc of a weapon without altering the ballistics of the weapon at all, so a component of accuracy is how easy the weapon's design makes it to measure the likely path of the projectile. Which is likely why rocket launchers and gyrojet rifles have such low acc compared to guns of similar size.

I think it would be easier to measure what Acc doesn't impact in the ability to group hits closely.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Refplace

A bolt action rifle is more accurate than any other type, everything else being equal.

What would be the reason for this?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

What would be the reason for this?

The reason bolt-actions tend to be the most accurate action type (not actually true - rolling blocks can be just as accurate) is that their bolts lock up very consistently and positively as a rule.

As for the OP's question, Acc is probably best thought of as 'practical accuracy' - how tight a group the weapon will let you shoot in good yet practical conditions. So it's not how well the weapon will shoot when clamped to a bench, though that's part of it. It assumes iron sights and familiarity with the weapon and its foibles.

Acc has nothing to do with range, which is measured by 1/2D range and max range. GURPS assumes that (almost) all weapons' accuracy degrades over range at the same rate - they all use the same size/speed/range table.

[solidsingularity]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As for the OP's question, Acc is probably best thought of as 'practical accuracy' - how tight a group the weapon will let you shoot in good yet practical conditions. So it's not how well the weapon will shoot when clamped to a bench, though that's part of it. It assumes iron sights and familiarity with the weapon and its foibles.

If Acc is how tight its group is the why does the AI AW a sup MOA gun have the same Acc as the m82a1 wich is a 2 to 1 MOA gun?
Alos why does the Remington 700 a bolt action rifle have the same accuracy as the FN Minimi an open Bolt machine gun?

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The reason bolt-actions tend to be the most accurate action type (not actually true - rolling blocks can be just as accurate) is that their bolts lock up very consistently and positively as a rule.

So basically simplicity and solidity of the mechanical action? Thanks, that makes sense. And rolling blocks would also be mechanically simple and solid? ...just looked up a video, and yeah, that's a very simple mechanism, and looks pretty solid.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As for the OP's question, Acc is probably best thought of as 'practical accuracy' - how tight a group the weapon will let you shoot in good yet practical conditions. So it's not how well the weapon will shoot when clamped to a bench, though that's part of it. It assumes iron sights and familiarity with the weapon and its foibles.

For what it's worth, I used both a modeling and a curve fit approach to look at bench-rest MoA claimed for weapons vs Acc and found a very good correlation. I summarized the results here.

The rules-based derivation of maximum possible skill for a weapon found in Tactical Shooting was the modeling version of this.

It will certainly get you in the ballpark.

Most times of course, the rate-limit to accuracy has nothing to do with the weapon. It's the operator. I've found many GURPS games where that's not the case, though, including a notable Black Ops game where lacking such an upper bound my wife's character could (seemingly, and with a slight exaggeration) thread a needle at well over 1,000 yards with a .45ACP.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Most times of course, the rate-limit to accuracy has nothing to do with the weapon. It's the operator. I've found many GURPS games where that's not the case, though, including a notable Black Ops game where lacking such an upper bound my wife's character could (seemingly, and with a slight exaggeration) thread a needle at well over 1,000 yards with a .45ACP.

That's mostly a question of Rule of Cool: Yes, hardware sets a limit, but you ignore that in stories where the hardware is really just a way for a leading character to express their ridiculous expertise. It isn't unique to games, or to guns. The example that races to mind is Bullitt . . . there's no way a Ford Mustang GT Fastback can out-race a 440 Magnum Dodge Charger, but the story calls for it, so that's what happens.