Common Magic for a TL3 Wuxia Fantasy Campaign

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

That's not a bad idea. "Super" Porcelain might be highly useful for things other than decoration.

Porcelain swords would make for a very distinct feel. Isn't there magical glass in DF? You could steal the stats from there.

Edit: Maybe make the brittleness depend on mana. In no or low-mana areas, they are fragile, with +2 to breakage. In normal- to high-mana, they perform as steel. And in very-high mana areas, they are better than steel, with -1 to breakage.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by johndallman

If you're willing to have metal-magicians who turn out high-quality steel in quantity, they can sell that steel and become wealthy. With that material, mundane smiths can make high-quality weapons, which become much more readily available than they were in historic TL3 settings.

This is where my mind went with this as well. I figure good metal is much more common simply because mages can filter out all the impurities. But what would you peg that as if it were technology? TL5ish?

Originally Posted by johndallman

Likewise, if earth magicians can make it relatively cheap to build (and maintain) fortifications, then every petty noble has a decent fort.

I figure shape earth is about as common as most powers. I don't want stuff like Create Earth though. I'm thinking I'm going to simply ban stuff that creates something out of nothing to prevent economic abuse. I'm also considering that stuff like gold cannot be manipulated by magic at all since it's a noble/immortal metal.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Overall, this kind of craftsmanship makes many fantasy tropes far more plausible: everyone of significance has a stronghold and a well-armed warband, without using up the whole economy supporting that.

I wrote this into my setting bible. Thoughts?

Mage-Shaped Gear
Shapers (those mages who can manipulate metal, wood, etc. as easily as a potter manipulates clay) are prized for their usefulness, despite the fact that it is a rather common form of magic. Expertly Shaped items have double normal HP and DR, while Masterfully Shaped items have triple HP and DR. Add +1 to HT for Expertly Shaped items or +2 for Masterfully Shaped items). The bonuses of this depend on the material being shaped and who did the shaping.
Add +9 CF for Expert Shaping or +39 CF for Masterful Shaping. This value is for weapons and armor, for non-armor and -weapon items the cost is +4 CF for Expert Shaping or +14 CF for Masterful Shaping. There may be other values as well dependent on the specific shaped substance. These effects are cumulative with the item’s quality where applicable. Two pertinent examples:

Metal: Expertly Shaped weapons give -1 to odds of breakage, but give weapons parrying them a +1 to odds of breakage. They never need sharpening or maintenance and are in effect exempt from all such rules. If they are sharpened regularly, the first hit always does +1 to damage (stacking with all other sources). Masterfully Shaped weapons won’t break under most circumstances (weapons over 10 times their weight might though, at the GM’s discretion) and give -2 to odds of breakage. Weapons parrying them have +2 to odds of breakage. Expert Metal Shaped Muscle-powered missile weapons made mostly of metal, such as the Tubular Bow (GUPRS Low-Tech p. 76) receive a -1 to odds of breakage when using them to parry and never need maintenance. Masterfully Shaped muscle-powered missile weapons receive +10% to range as well. Other mostly metal missile weapons or artillery (such as cannon or firearms) reduce their Malfunction number as if they were a +1 TL higher than they actually are (for Expertly Shaped) and add a +1 bonus to Accuracy (for Masterfully Shaped).
Wood: Expertly Shaped weapons give -1 to odds of breakage and are incredibly resistant to flame, being considered Highly Resistant (p. B433). Masterfully Shaped weapons receive a +1 bonus to damage for melee, thrown weapons, and projectiles. Missile weapons receive a +20% to range and increase the ST rating by 1 for range and damage instead. Expertly Shaped armor and shields can be made at 50% of weight for the same base DR, or 30% weight for Masterfully Shaped armor and shields. For vehicles that have been Shaped, the cost increases to +49 CF (for Expert Shaping) or +99 CF (for Masterful Shaping). For vehicles so created, Expert Shaping gives a +10% bonus to speed or double normal HP and DR, while Masterfully Shaped vehicles receive either triple HP and DR or +20% bonus to speed or double HP and DR and +10% bonus to speed.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I figure good metal is much more common simply because mages can filter out all the impurities. But what would you peg that as if it were technology? TL5ish?

I think the primary impact is on prices for equipment, rather than its capabilities.

I wrote this into my setting bible. Thoughts?

Presumably this is meant to be the source of cinematically good equipment? You might want to break up the improvements into more levels or options, to avoid reaching "You have as good gear as exists" too early in character development?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Ceramic has great ability for sharpness so good for cutting but vulnerable to shattering from impact. But with magic? avoiding that drawback or just making it easier to repair would make for widespread usage and raw material cheaper than iron.

Originally Posted by Anders

Porcelain swords would make for a very distinct feel. Isn't there magical glass in DF? You could steal the stats from there.

Porcelain weapons would be pretty neat. Hmmm. I'll have to consider how to implement it. The Tempered Glass from DF would likely be a good fit.

Originally Posted by Anders

Edit: Maybe make the brittleness depend on mana. In no or low-mana areas, they are fragile, with +2 to breakage. In normal- to high-mana, they perform as steel. And in very-high mana areas, they are better than steel, with -1 to breakage.

I'm not using mana at all, instead, too much of an element in an area cancels out the use of other elements.

Originally Posted by johndallman

I think the primary impact is on prices for equipment, rather than its capabilities.

Could you give me some specifics?

Originally Posted by johndallman

Presumably this is meant to be the source of cinematically good equipment? You might want to break up the improvements into more levels or options, to avoid reaching "You have as good gear as exists" too early in character development?

Good point.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I think the primary impact is on prices for equipment, rather than its capabilities.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Could you give me some specifics?

Well, on a normal TL path, blades are Fine at no extra cost from TL7 onwards. In places where metal magicians are well-established, prices won't be quite that good, because it's still craft-work rather than industrial production, but Fine blades might be only +1CF rather than +3CF. Then add the markup for any enchanted properties.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I think the primary impact is on prices for equipment, rather than its capabilities.

The effect on prices would be impacted by a) how easy & fast it is to make the un-enchanted items and b) how much mages can get away with charging for enchanting the items.

What they can charge is generally up to the rarity of their ability/abilities and how much effort it takes to use.

It would be plausible for one setup to make equivalent items cheaper than listed, it would also be plausible a different setup to make equivalent items to be available a couple of TL earlier.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I'm firmly of the mind that a good setting might begin with the real world, but it does not end there. Limiting oneself to only what is can force you not to see what could be.

Preach it!

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

That said what I'm seeking are the possible ramifications for having access to crafters who can also perform magic. What technology might be possible having access to supernatural powers? What might change in the campaign setting because of it? And what cool ideas would you use if you were running such a campaign.

I'm always in love with enchanting so that's one place I always go. So basic question: is it possible to infuse a substance with magic and/or chi? Metal tempered with chi for example. Thinking about what sort of supernatural materials could arise from substances being inundated with the energies responsible for a particular type of supernatural power could yield some interesting options: a Chi infused blade might be simply a higher quality blade or maybe it's not possible to keep the chi in the blade so it's really just an imbuement or some of the explanation behind a power attack... or because chi is life-force it could yield a metal blade that is alive like a living plant, "healing" minor knicks and scratchs and responding to chi in its environment somehow.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Preach it!

:-)

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I'm always in love with enchanting so that's one place I always go. So basic question: is it possible to infuse a substance with magic and/or chi? Metal tempered with chi for example. Thinking about what sort of supernatural materials could arise from substances being inundated with the energies responsible for a particular type of supernatural power could yield some interesting options: a Chi infused blade might be simply a higher quality blade or maybe it's not possible to keep the chi in the blade so it's really just an imbuement or some of the explanation behind a power attack... or because chi is life-force it could yield a metal blade that is alive like a living plant, "healing" minor knicks and scratchs and responding to chi in its environment somehow.

Enchanting is currently possible. I am going to have to bust out my Crafting Imbuements to use to create new modifiers for weapons. (Which is what it was intended to do while also creating a new system for "enchantment".)

In the setting there are these items called "Shenshou" (Godhand) which can be weapons (and often are), armor, shields, or even non-weapon items like musical instruments or jewelry. They function like artifacts from DF6, but I wrote about 10000 words of new powers, put a random roll table in for said powers, and then had my players use them. So far I have four PCs with a shenshou (paired butterfly swords, giant honking sword, double-bladed jian, and a chain whip). The fluff around the shenshou is that they were once wielded by the Immortal Warriors of the gods, but the Immortal Warriors betrayed the gods/left one day and their discorded weapons/armor/gear were taken up by mortal men and women. The more an item is used, the bigger it's "golden core" (the source of its power) is increased as part of the users qi is passed onto it through use. Obviously, I don't want PCs making these so they can only be found or passed down from others.

Part of this thread's purpose is for me to decide how enchantment and magic might affect my setting. It's high fantasy so it's kind of expected that magic could change things. Magic itself is fairly common (as noted above) and you have to be born with the gift. Most folks just have one or two powers without any Sorcerous Empowerment. But even one spell can be powerful if it's the right one.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Enchanting is currently possible. I am going to have to bust out my Crafting Imbuements to use to create new modifiers for weapons. (Which is what it was intended to do while also creating a new system for "enchantment".)

In the setting there are these items called "Shenshou" (Godhand) which can be weapons (and often are), armor, shields, or even non-weapon items like musical instruments or jewelry. They function like artifacts from DF6, but I wrote about 10000 words of new powers, put a random roll table in for said powers, and then had my players use them. So far I have four PCs with a shenshou (paired butterfly swords, giant honking sword, double-bladed jian, and a chain whip). The fluff around the shenshou is that they were once wielded by the Immortal Warriors of the gods, but the Immortal Warriors betrayed the gods/left one day and their discorded weapons/armor/gear were taken up by mortal men and women. The more an item is used, the bigger it's "golden core" (the source of its power) is increased as part of the users qi is passed onto it through use. Obviously, I don't want PCs making these so they can only be found or passed down from others.

Part of this thread's purpose is for me to decide how enchantment and magic might affect my setting. It's high fantasy so it's kind of expected that magic could change things. Magic itself is fairly common (as noted above) and you have to be born with the gift. Most folks just have one or two powers without any Sorcerous Empowerment. But even one spell can be powerful if it's the right one.

Shenshou sound super cool and like the type of mechanic that would be really satisfying advancement for players.

You mentioned alchemy is a thing so just brainstorming supernatural materials that alchemy and magic could produce.
Ignoring elements with negative relationships with one another (which should absolutely matter) and assuming that the creation of these substances requires something like Create (cosmic: essential element, transformation only: normal to cosmic)
Air chi infused Metal: might be substantially lighter, which wouldn't matter too much for fencing weapons but for other weapons would substantially impact the leverage involved, potentially eliminating the offensive benefits of using a levered striking surface but making quick parries easier. Would make heavy armor less encumbering, which is highly desirable. Could also make a variety of low tech vehicles that proved too heavy for muscle power or for the materials of the time to hold up sufficiently viable to be used if you could procure enough of the metal, such as davinci's flying machine, or armored wagons.
Earth chi infused Metal: Makes a really soft clay like metal, great for artists and sculpting, potentially very useful but I'm not sure what for
Fire chi infused Metal: A metal that naturally burns at all times with a relatively cool fire. Flaming swords are an obvious one. This could also be used in battlements to thoroughly discourage the use of ladders.
Metal chi infused Metal: Classic essential metal: 3x as strong and mostly won't degrade.
Water chi infused Metal: Great for making high flexibility metals that allow plate armor over areas where there is often trade-off of defense vs. flexibility such as the abdomen or shoulders. Also, high flexibility metals could yield good springs and I'm not enough of a mechanic to foresee all the ramifications of that sort of thing.
Wood chi infused Metal: Metal that sort of "grows": give it water and sunlight and it'll make minor repairs to itself over time within reason. Highly prized by Xia for the reduced cost of maintenance, especially on armor which sees a beating and is expensive.

Not everything alchemists produce is good for society:
Fire Wine: Illegal everywhere, this infamous party drug of the rich is still produced by disreputable alchemists with a talent for fire-magic, who find they can fetch a very high price for it on the black market. The liquid is a dark brownish red, with the red color coming out strongly when light shines through it, and is perpetually on fire when exposed to air. It is actually a combination of condensed black tea and distilled rice-wine, infused with fire-chi (or fire magic). The fire-chi(/magic) enhances the stimulent qualities of the tea and the intensity of the alcohol, while reinforcing the individuals yang energies into dominance. A single shot of the alcohol acts as quadruple strength spirits (B439) and a strong stimulant (B440), while also giving the individual a yang dominant chi imbalance causing them to gain Impulsiveness (12), Lecherousness (12), a quirk level desire for easy pleasures, noticably hot and dry skin, -2 to HT rolls to resist disease, -3 to HT rolls to resist the effects of heat, and +2 to HT rolls to resist the effects of cold. If he already has those mental disadvantages the self control number gets two steps worse (anything worse than a 6 means he's completely incapable of resisting his impulses!). Make a HT-2 roll after 3d hours, and again for each hour thereafter, to shake off these chi-imbalance effects. The intoxication and stimulant effects wear off normally for those things. However, when the Yang imbalance fades it is replaced with a Yin imbalance "low" in which the individual gains Bully (12) largely expressed through a quirk level tendency to spiteful remarks, lecherousness (12), noticeably clammy skin, -2 to HT rolls to resist disease; -3 to HT rolls to resist the effects of cold, and +2 to HT rolls to resist the effects of heat. The Yin imbalance lasts as long as the Yang imbalance did.

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Earth chi infused Metal: Makes a really soft clay like metal, great for artists and sculpting, potentially very useful but I'm not sure what for

A chi master can infuse chi into metal and soften a gate enough to rip it open. They can also pull the chi out so a chi artist can mold metal and then reharden it when they have it shaped to what they want.