[MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons - Page 6

DangerousThing · 03-22-2020, 07:38 PM

My sister has a small metal flashlight. It's about 8" long and 1" in diameter on the barrel, with the lens being larger. It has a compass on the back end, so I assume that it was marketed as a "survival" device. It would have appealed to my dad (she was taking care of him when he died).

It looks like an aluminum case. It feels sturdy, but I'm not going to wack it against anything to try to test it. :)

It does give out a decent LED beam.

Icelander · 03-23-2020, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

My sister has a small metal flashlight. It's about 8" long and 1" in diameter on the barrel, with the lens being larger. It has a compass on the back end, so I assume that it was marketed as a "survival" device. It would have appealed to my dad (she was taking care of him when he died).

It looks like an aluminum case. It feels sturdy, but I'm not going to wack it against anything to try to test it. :)

It does give out a decent LED beam.

About how much does it weigh?

I'm looking for a flashlight in that approximate size range.

The character may elect to own an old TL7 model in stainless steel, for reasons of supernatural nature, but otherwise, this sounds about right.

RogerBW · 03-23-2020, 11:55 AM

The classic "built like a brick" flashlight is the Maglite, particularly the C or D-cell models (MN1400, MN1300 respectively). The Ds come in 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6-cell models, the Cs in 2, 3 and 4 as far as I know; while it's not an option offered by Maglite, I have known people who mounted side handles onto the case (though in the UK at least that's legally a bit dodgy, as it shows you were expecting to use the thing as a weapon, rather than just happening to have it with you when you were attacked). All aluminium cases as far as I know. Maglite have been slow to offer LEDs, but even if the model you want is only available in incandescent, there are plenty of third-party conversion kits.

Verjigorm · 03-23-2020, 12:47 PM

A swanson brand speed square, is interesting. I mention the swanson brand, because their aluminum squares have a shape that is conducive to gripping them almost like a katar or punch dagger. And used as a fistload, you can easily crack someones skull with it by punching with it. And it's innocuous, because you can stick one in your back pocket and almost no one thinks of it as a weapon.

I think canes are probably the next best. I'm a really big fan of canes: you can easily get into a bar with a cane, people will often assume some sort of disability or impairment from you if you're using one, and if they're made out a good hardwood, well, it's a nice balanced wooden sword you can whack folks with.

MrFix · 03-25-2020, 01:21 PM

No need to mess around with flashlight statistics.

HT52 Tactical Lights aka Maglites.

LC4 in most jurisdictions as long as you don't mount it on a gun.

Nobody is gonna detain or search you for having a flashlight.

Looking at the taclight when it is enabled prompts HT-4 roll to avoid being blinded for Margin Of Failure times 10. Which is minimum 10 seconds.

Small Tactical Light is used as Brass Knuckles (DX or the three striking skills) in combat (see basic set for stats)

Large Tactical Light is used as a baton (Shortsword) in combat (see basic set for stats)

TL8 Large Taclight is 0.5 lbs. Small one is 0.25

TL7 Large Taclight is 1 lbs, Small one is 0.5

Martial Arts 224 has other 'mundane' weapons.

Icelander · 03-25-2020, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFix

Large Tactical Light is used as a baton (Shortsword) in combat (see basic set for stats)

TL8 Large Taclight is 0.5 lbs. Small one is 0.25

TL7 Large Taclight is 1 lbs, Small one is 0.5

Martial Arts 224 has other 'mundane' weapons.

Well, what does that mean in terms of real flashlights?

The stats are easy, I want to know what brand and model, exactly, the character carries.

I want a TL7 Tactical Light, exactly at the midpoint between Large and Small, i.e, usable as a SHORT BATON instead of a normal BATON, and thus making use of the Knife skill.

What real-world TL7 (probably 1970s or early 1980s vintage) flashlight was much beloved by police officers worldwide and would be usable as a shorter version of the 1-lb Large Tactical Light, weighing something around 0.75-1 lbs.?

What are TL7 Tactical Lights, anyway?

That is, who made the most popular models?

What is the iconic 1970s police flashlight?

MrFix · 03-25-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, what does that mean in terms of real flashlights?

The stats are easy, I want to know what brand and model, exactly, the character carries.

I want a TL7 Tactical Light, exactly at the midpoint between Large and Small, i.e, usable as a SHORT BATON instead of a normal BATON, and thus making use of the Knife skill.

What real-world TL7 (probably 1970s or early 1980s vintage) flashlight was much beloved by police officers worldwide and would be usable as a shorter version of the 1-lb Large Tactical Light, weighing something around 0.75-1 lbs.?

What are TL7 Tactical Lights, anyway?

That is, who made the most popular models?

What is the iconic 1970s police flashlight?

Maglite. As you can see they come in many shapes. Just assume TL7 Medium TacLight is 0.75 lbs and can be used as short baton.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/...SR285,285_.jpg

P.S.: Earliest maglite existed since 1979, you can probably search around for maglite precursors but "A rough large flashlight you can bonk people on the head with" is not a patented invention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Lite - wiki lists this as Maglite precursor.

Quote:

Kel-Lite was the first heavy-duty aluminum bodied flashlight, which became popular with law enforcement agencies due to its heavy construction. They were designed to be carried in place of a police baton and also provide light.

Quote:

1st generation
Designed by Don Keller from 1969-1972 included the Large head KL model, The small Head SKL and the C cell CPL models.

Article with picture regarding Kel-Lite Gen 1, as you can see extremely similar to maglite.

https://otherflashlights.blogspot.co...early-kel.html

jason taylor · 03-25-2020, 02:51 PM

How about a windowbreaker wielded as a knuckleduster?

Icelander · 03-25-2020, 03:24 PM

It looks like a Kel-Lite 3C light (1.5 lbs.) would be a balanced SHORT BATON if wielded with the head used as a grip and could be a BATON (with Shortsword skill) or a less effective KNOBBED CLUB (with Axe/Mace skill) at sw cr damage if used with the heavier head as the striking surface.

Any of the bigger lights couldn't be used with Knife skill at all and are either Shortsword or Axe/Mace skill, depending on how balanced they are. I'd personally allow the use of either for most of them, unless you went for a really big and heavy head, in which case you'd be limited to Axe/Mace skill, but would get a relative +1 to damage. The heaviest would be Unbalanced weapons, of course.

Icelander · 03-25-2020, 03:27 PM

Does anyone know what UK and Commonwealth police used for lighting in the 1940s to the 1980s?

What did cops use before everyone used Kel-Lites and then Maglites?

What is the Commonwealth version of a Kel-Lite and later Maglites?

Were there ever any flashlights, military, police or survival, that had a body made out of stainless steel?

This might have been before aluminum became cheap enough for the purpose or it might have been for ultra-rugged models. I don't know.

Anyone know about any TL7 stainless steel flashlights?

03-22-2020, 07:38 PM	#51
DangerousThing Join Date: Mar 2013	Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons My sister has a small metal flashlight. It's about 8" long and 1" in diameter on the barrel, with the lens being larger. It has a compass on the back end, so I assume that it was marketed as a "survival" device. It would have appealed to my dad (she was taking care of him when he died). It looks like an aluminum case. It feels sturdy, but I'm not going to wack it against anything to try to test it. :) It does give out a decent LED beam. __________________ A little learning is a dangerous thing. Warning: Invertebrate Punnster - Spinelessly Unable to Resist a Pun Dangerous Thoughts, my blog about GURPS and life.

03-23-2020, 11:55 AM	#53
RogerBW Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: near London, UK	Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons The classic "built like a brick" flashlight is the Maglite, particularly the C or D-cell models (MN1400, MN1300 respectively). The Ds come in 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6-cell models, the Cs in 2, 3 and 4 as far as I know; while it's not an option offered by Maglite, I have known people who mounted side handles onto the case (though in the UK at least that's legally a bit dodgy, as it shows you were expecting to use the thing as a weapon, rather than just happening to have it with you when you were attacked). All aluminium cases as far as I know. Maglite have been slow to offer LEDs, but even if the model you want is only available in incandescent, there are plenty of third-party conversion kits. __________________ Podcast: Improvised Radio Theatre - With Dice Gaming stuff here: Tekeli-li! Blog; Webcomic Laager and Limehouse Buy things by me on Warehouse 23

03-23-2020, 12:47 PM	#54
Verjigorm Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?	Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons A swanson brand speed square, is interesting. I mention the swanson brand, because their aluminum squares have a shape that is conducive to gripping them almost like a katar or punch dagger. And used as a fistload, you can easily crack someones skull with it by punching with it. And it's innocuous, because you can stick one in your back pocket and almost no one thinks of it as a weapon. I think canes are probably the next best. I'm a really big fan of canes: you can easily get into a bar with a cane, people will often assume some sort of disability or impairment from you if you're using one, and if they're made out a good hardwood, well, it's a nice balanced wooden sword you can whack folks with. __________________ Hydration is key

03-25-2020, 01:21 PM	#55
MrFix Join Date: Aug 2019	Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons No need to mess around with flashlight statistics. HT52 Tactical Lights aka Maglites. LC4 in most jurisdictions as long as you don't mount it on a gun. Nobody is gonna detain or search you for having a flashlight. Looking at the taclight when it is enabled prompts HT-4 roll to avoid being blinded for Margin Of Failure times 10. Which is minimum 10 seconds. Small Tactical Light is used as Brass Knuckles (DX or the three striking skills) in combat (see basic set for stats) Large Tactical Light is used as a baton (Shortsword) in combat (see basic set for stats) TL8 Large Taclight is 0.5 lbs. Small one is 0.25 TL7 Large Taclight is 1 lbs, Small one is 0.5 Martial Arts 224 has other 'mundane' weapons. __________________ Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit

03-25-2020, 02:51 PM	#58
jason taylor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon	Re: [MA/HT] Innocuous Improvised Weapons How about a windowbreaker wielded as a knuckleduster? __________________ "The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison

03-25-2020, 03:24 PM	#59
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	Late TL7 and Early TL8 Cop Lights It looks like a Kel-Lite 3C light (1.5 lbs.) would be a balanced SHORT BATON if wielded with the head used as a grip and could be a BATON (with Shortsword skill) or a less effective KNOBBED CLUB (with Axe/Mace skill) at sw cr damage if used with the heavier head as the striking surface. Any of the bigger lights couldn't be used with Knife skill at all and are either Shortsword or Axe/Mace skill, depending on how balanced they are. I'd personally allow the use of either for most of them, unless you went for a really big and heavy head, in which case you'd be limited to Axe/Mace skill, but would get a relative +1 to damage. The heaviest would be Unbalanced weapons, of course. __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

03-25-2020, 03:27 PM	#60
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	TL7 Flashlights Does anyone know what UK and Commonwealth police used for lighting in the 1940s to the 1980s? What did cops use before everyone used Kel-Lites and then Maglites? What is the Commonwealth version of a Kel-Lite and later Maglites? Were there ever any flashlights, military, police or survival, that had a body made out of stainless steel? This might have been before aluminum became cheap enough for the purpose or it might have been for ultra-rugged models. I don't know. Anyone know about any TL7 stainless steel flashlights? __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!