02-19-2020, 08:45 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
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Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Is there a consensus on using missile weapon range adjustments for thrown spells? It would make lower IQ spells like Trip and Drop Weapon dangerous...
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02-19-2020, 09:45 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
The real problem with thrown spells is doing them over and over again all day long from miles and miles away.
My DX 9 witch lying on the surface casts Knock at various depth settings and listens to the ground for the explosions of traps going off dozens of yards below her. ("One ping only!")
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-HJC Last edited by hcobb; 02-19-2020 at 09:50 PM. |
02-20-2020, 12:05 AM | #3 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Hopefully there's a strong consensus to NOT use missile weapon ranged adjustments for thrown spells, unless you want thrown spells to be massively more effective than they already are, and for everyone to be at their mercy even at a distance.
The range penalty is almost the only thing limiting the effectiveness of Thrown spells, and there are several of them that are extremely powerful when they succeed. As is, you can mitigate that danger by not getting too close to a capable wizard. Take that away, and it'll be a Thrown spell field day. They'd be even more effective than missile spells can be in ending a wizard duel in favor of the fastest wizard. After all, you can't dodge them or avoid them by standing behind allies. Trip and Drop Weapon are low-IQ spells but can be quite effective if/when use well. Many of the others would be very discouraging if they were easy to get hit with even several megahexes away. Of course, it would open up various new long-range tactics and exploits, which might be entertaining for them (and very challenging for others to cope with). |
02-20-2020, 05:37 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Thrown spells using missile range penalties? Don't do it.
Instead, I like the house-rule talent similar to Missile Weapons talent that allows a wizard to use a particular thrown spell at +1 to +3 (depending on the level of the talent) with the adjustment to DX only being able to offset the range penalty, never to give an actual bonus. It winds up costing the wizard a lot, but that seems fair given how powerful many thrown spells are. Having this talent in the game adds a lot of uncertainty about sorcerous adversaries, which I enjoy. |
02-20-2020, 08:11 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Wizards were plenty good enough in Classic and have got a lot of help in Legacy through the staff changes. A major change that makes them even more effective seems unwise. I'd be more interested in something that gave heroes more of a chance against wizards.
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02-20-2020, 08:19 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
The central design concept of the game is diversity with parity. Break the parity and there is no diversity. A wizard who can use all thrown spells outside of the range of a charge with little or no DX penalty will wipe out any non-wizard in pretty much any conflict. I would only consider doing this if there were some understanding about the campaign that made it acceptable for wizards to be the only competitive character type (i.e., in combat).
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02-20-2020, 11:41 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
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As I recall, the staff changes (and 3 ST limit on missile spells) were made to give the wizard a chance to contribute more often in a standard dungeon crawl, rather than saving him/her self until a "big gun" was needed. I was thinking that increasing the range of thrown spells would lead to them being used more often, adding some diversity and creativity to combats. It could also make an IQ 9 or 10 wizard actually dangerous. Thrown spells like trip or drop weapon don't do damage on their own, but can be lethal if thrown on a foe already engaged in combat. To me it seems kind of goofy that a wizard has to run up and get close before they can use certain kinds of magic on you, while others spells work from much farther away. |
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02-20-2020, 11:52 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Quote:
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02-20-2020, 12:05 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
Spell Expertise: Costs two memory points for hero and wizard. Specify the thrown spell when buying this talent and the range adjustment for that spell is reduced to minus one DX per megahex of range rather than per hex.
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-HJC |
02-20-2020, 12:13 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Thrown spells using missile weapon drange adjustments
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I can think of many ways IQ 9 or 10 wizards can be very effective. And many ways they would be extremely powerful with the super-long-range thrown spells you suggested. They would be a nightmare for their opponents, and for GM's of clever players, and for players whose GMs were using such powers against them intelligently. This may come across as even more patronizing than I probably already often come across as, so apologies for that, but I think you need to playtest wizards more to appreciate how effective they can be when played well. It is true that it's quite possible to face hard problems as a wizard, or to not see an easy/effective/obvious thing to do that isn't dangerous or that doesn't use up your ST, and get frustrated. But it's also very possible in many situations for a wizard used well to tip the scales of a group fight, and/or dominate a fighter of equal or more attributes than they have. The proposed change would make it easier for a wizard to be effective without having to be clever or to take risks or to use a lot of energy or to have more powerful spells. But that also means that clever wizards and wizards who are more powerful etc would be even more capable than they already are. It'd be great for limiting magic item proliferation, though, and for brigandry and pacifism. Just use Break Weapon to break people's weapons from long range and run away, rest and come back till they're all out of weapons. Often wizards will be able to cast spells on people from so far away they may not even be seen, let alone identified. Or hide in the bushes out of sight and cast Control Person and have the party attack itself, without them even knowing which way to try to run to find or avoid whoever was doing that to them. Or Curse your foes from range. Not to mention more powerful spells. "You're walking down the road when... someone at a distance cast Megahex Sleep on your whole party. Anyone have ST 20? No?" |
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