Explain to me about Professional Skills

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by maximara

Based on what Bruce Trigger says in his 2006 A History of Archaeological Thought that was not Egyptology but Antiquarianism (Ancient Egypt) which at a practical level was little more then glorified treasure hunting as demonstrated by the antics of Heinrich Schliemann at Troy. Heck, Egyptology didn't really come into being until Flinders Petrie in the 1880's and there were still Antiquarianism remnants clear into the 1920s (very minor thankfully) as shown by some of the antics performed regarding the handling of King Tut's tomb even though by that time archeology was firmly integrated into the field.

The people who practised it assuredly did call what they were doing Egyptolology, and that is the context in which the skill entered GURPS. Indeed, you've demonstrated my point perfectly: in the 20s, Expert Skill: Egyptolology ceases to exist and is replaced by Archaeology (Ancient Egypt) and/ or History (Ancient Egypt).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

The people who practised it assuredly did call what they were doing Egyptolology, and that is the context in which the skill entered GURPS. Indeed, you've demonstrated my point perfectly: in the 20s, Expert Skill: Egyptolology ceases to exist and is replaced by Archaeology (Ancient Egypt) and/ or History (Ancient Egypt).

By this logic you can't give the GURPS version of Vlad III (ie Dracula) the Sadism disadvantage because the term didn't exist until about 400 years later. The term "Egyptolology" brings to mind the current version not the thing called that that back in the 19th century.

[Inky]

That's interesting, Maximara. Thanks. I repeat, it's not all about Influence, or about getting information either. But that has a lot to say about cases when it is.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Tinman

In the campaign I'm currently in we are playing a Buffyesq/High School Monster Hunters game. The GM had all of us take Professional skill (Student).

It covers knowledge of subjects one would learn in high school (math, English, chemistry, ect...) as well as everything else in the high school. It's a stand in for: Area Knowledge (HS) as well as writing a book report and anything else needed to get you through high school.

It's a way to have a skill to do all that but not have to deal with skill bloat & have 10 extra skills that would take away from the monster hunting prowess.

The only fly in that ointment is the "job skills" that provide a "steady income" part of Professional skill. Just what a student would know varies wildly depending on the school and education level and there are aspects that could fall under Expert Skill's domain though slightly narrower in scope.

IMHO a Buffyesq/High School Monster Hunters campaign is one of those where a wildcard skill (Student!) fits the bill. Throw in Task Difficulty modifiers (+3 to take test in Mr Johnson's history class) and that would solve most of the issues.

Originally Posted by Inky

That's interesting, Maximara. Thanks. I repeat, it's not all about Influence, or about getting information either. But that has a lot to say about cases when it is.

Another issue is that there are very few examples of Expert Skills in fiction but plenty of wildcard skills.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by maximara

By this logic you can't give the GURPS version of Vlad III (ie Dracula) the Sadism disadvantage because the term didn't exist until about 400 years later. The term "Egyptolology" brings to mind the current version not the thing called that that back in the 19th century.

I would venture to suggest that this is because of your personal academic specialty. I (and I suspect most people) had no idea that anyone nowadays called themselves an Egyptologist: I've only ever encountered the term in old books and historical fiction. The Egyptolology skill first showed up in GURPS Horror IIRC, and was specifically connected to the Victorian England setting.

[Black Leviathan]

Professional skills are the difference between a young man called to adventure from his ordinary life and a serial killer.

I joke but that's the mechanical picture that's painted when you have a character with no mechanical representation of a life outside of climbing into holds, killing folks, and taking their stuff is pretty grim. A setting where you don't know anything that you could do for money would be very strange. Beyond just creating a character that's more well-rounded and realistic in the game world, professional skills often create a character with surprise utility when knowing things about masonry or tile work, or how to recognize and treat the effects of a poison or have an understanding of the artistic style of different battleaxes, or know how to speak ancient languages.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by maximara

The only fly in that ointment is the "job skills" that provide a "steady income" part of Professional skill.

That is not a required part of Professional Skill. "A Professional Skill can help you earn a steady income."

Just what a student would know varies wildly depending on the school and education level and there are aspects that could fall under Expert Skill's domain though slightly narrower in scope.

A student usually doesn't know enough about any subject to actually qualify for Expert Skill in that subject. I wouldn't consider Expert Skill for anyone less than a grad student.

IMHO a Buffyesq/High School Monster Hunters campaign is one of those where a wildcard skill (Student!) fits the bill.

Wildcard skills are for cinematically broad ability. I don't care how cinematic your student skills are, I can't imagine a point of Student! being equal in knowledge or ability to a point of Science!

Another issue is that there are very few examples of Expert Skills in fiction but plenty of wildcard skills.

What? There are tons of examples of Expert Skills in fiction. Any time you've got someone who knows a lot but hasn't got practical experience. The pipe-smoking professor who knows all about a subject but couldn't last five minutes confronted with that subject. The kook who knows every conspiracy theory but then actually gets abducted by aliens. The serenely calm scholar of the Renaissance who explains that we are no longer living in the Dark Ages, and the new science can explain everything. Anybody who KNOWS something without practicing that something in the field.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Wildcard skills are for cinematically broad ability. I don't care how cinematic your student skills are, I can't imagine a point of Student! being equal in knowledge or ability to a point of Science!

As Power-Ups 7 points out not all wildcard skills cover the same range. History! covers far fewer skills then Science! (which by its very nature would include a social science wildcard like History!) If you want to go further down the wildcard rabbit hole there are also wildcard techniques and advantages.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

What? There are tons of examples of Expert Skills in fiction. Any time you've got someone who knows a lot but hasn't got practical experience. The pipe-smoking professor who knows all about a subject but couldn't last five minutes confronted with that subject.

Why would a Scholar! know how to fight either?

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The kook who knows every conspiracy theory but then actually gets abducted by aliens.

A illuminated character could easily find themselves in the same situation.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The serenely calm scholar of the Renaissance who explains that we are no longer living in the Dark Ages, and the new science can explain everything.

Bad example because their meaning of "Dark Ages" varied wildly. Heck, it first appeared in the 1330s and was mainly used to refer to the lack of records of a period of time.

During much of the Renaissance the term was restricted to a narrow window of the 10th and 11th centuries. It wasn't until the even later Age of Enlightenment that it was a term used for the entire Middle Ages (476-1453) and that was quickly trimmed down to just 476 to somewhere in the 10th century.

The idea that the new science could explain everything is more an Age of Enlightenment concept then a Renaissance. Much of the Renaissance involved finding (and correcting) recently recovered information from Greek and Roman times. James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed "Point of View" serves a quick cliff notes into this period.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Anybody who KNOWS something without practicing that something in the field.

Which in this day and age is no further then the average wikipedia article. ;-)

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Professional skills are the difference between a young man called to adventure from his ordinary life and a serial killer.

Was that a side reference to Team Fortress 2? :-)

Sniper: "Dad? Dad, I'm a- Ye- Not a "crazed gunman", dad, I'm an assassin! ...Well, the difference bein' one is a job and the other's a mental sickness!"

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by maximara

Hobby and Professional Skills gives the whole Expert Skill a non sequitur tone.

There is no representation in the rules that they are supposed to be a continuum of like things.