US Law Enforcement Response, Time, Scale and Coordination (Galveston, TX)

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by maximara

Interstate 40 is also U.S. Highway 87 so someone (especially if they are under pressure) could say it technically falls under the mayor/county commissioner for that stretch.

U.S. Highway 87 is also part of the federal highway system (just not the interstate system), so you would still need permission from a governor to close it down (even a rolling blockade would exceed the authority of a mayor/county commissioner).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

U.S. Highway 87 is also part of the federal highway system (just not the interstate system), so you would still need permission from a governor to close it down (even a rolling blockade would exceed the authority of a mayor/county commissioner).

Per the wikiperida article on them despite being called a "federal highway system" they "were built and have always been maintained by state or local governments."

A little searching produced "Buchanan County Sheriff deputies are shutting down Highway 59 because of flooding." Not the governor but the County Sheriff deputies so they do have some leeway. As the old saying goes 'better to ask forgiveness then permission'.

This is especially true if the "local billionaire J.R. Kessler" wants action now because someone 'hurt his little girl'.

That is the problem with having such a person involved even tangentially. When large amounts of money get involved things can get dicey and sometimes the law takes a back seat to expediency. Heck, we know that the guy has enough clout to interfere with a kidnapping investigation which could run into Texas Penal Code - Penal § 38.15. Interference with Public Duties. Sure it is only a Class B misdemeanor but the interference is in regards to a state felony so I don't know how those two law interact with each other.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by maximara

This is especially true if the "local billionaire J.R. Kessler" wants action now because someone 'hurt his little girl'.

That is the problem with having such a person involved even tangentially. When large amounts of money get involved things can get dicey and sometimes the law takes a back seat to expediency. Heck, we know that the guy has enough clout to interfere with a kidnapping investigation which could run into Texas Penal Code - Penal § 38.15. Interference with Public Duties. Sure it is only a Class B misdemeanor but the interference is in regards to a state felony so I don't know how those two law interact with each other.

This is a very good point.

Of course, the kidnapping of J.R. Kessler's employee, Alice Talbot, took place on the 27th of December. No one aboard Penemue, neither Kessler nor any of his staff, knew that she had been kidnapped when it happened, at noon. She was not reported missing and no one was worried about her, not until she did not show up for dinner onboard.

At which point 'Aunty Genie', the cook, pouted a bit, but no one suspected anything out of the ordinary. After all, while it is impolite not to notify the cook that she won't be eating onboard, it's not like this would be the first time Alice had lost track of time and her duties as the assistant in the library aboard are fairly flexible.

More troubling was Alice failed to show up for a gaming session with her boss, librarian Alfred L. Lapointe, and a number of other crew members and friends, including the other PCs. While Aunty Genie, Kessler and other senior staff did not consider missing a meal a huge deal, Dr. Lapointe knew immediately that Alice would never be late for a game without letting the GM know, not unless something had happened to throw her into total disarray.

So, he called the other PCs (totally late for the session as well, totally usual in their case) and asked them to locate Alice Talbot. As two of the other PCs are Reserve Deputies at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office, they could be expected to have methods of finding people. When the other PCs claimed they were actually involved in a case, one with more serious stakes than a girl who doesn't keep track of time, Dr. Lapointe fussed and fumed for a while, but eventually decided to use his occult knowledge to try to track Alice.

Long story short, the other two PCs found the six bodies that led to the huge investigation by Galveston PD and GCSO, and Dr. Lapointe got some information by mystical means which convinced him that Alice Talbot was really and truly in mortal peril and also narrowed down where she might be.

The PCs, using his description, and their own Area Knowledge, Occultism and a few other skills, guessed at where she might be being held, aided in no small part by the fact that a golem-like entity made of black mud fled the scene of the murders and ran through the streets of Galveston, to the Haunted Mayfield Manor.

And that set the scene for a climatic confrontation where the PCs defeated mud constructs and cultists and rescued Alice Talbot, who, mind you, might argue that she was quite adequately freed before they arrived, and had, in fact, subdued her kidnapper through the simple expedient of chewing through much of his throat.

And then the police arrived, but the PCs were able to smuggle out one of the cultists, said 'Gwen Delvano', conveniently rendered unconscious by a blow from a stout wooden staff, less conveniently having suffered a catastrophic magical mishap of unknown consequence. The PCs hoped to keep the police from finding out about her, as 'Nonc' Morel, the PC who snuck her out in front of multiple officers using a ritual designed to make them inconspicuous, was not mentioned as having been on the scene.

The official record of the incidents at the Seawall Walmart and the Haunted Mayfield Manor aimed to minimize the PCs' involvement, given that they were out of their jurisdiction and not quite acting within regulations, but with a kidnapper suspected of six murders in custody (albeit not talking, due to a bad case of chewed throat), no one was too worried about fine-tuning the reports a bit.

However, the PCs found out the next day, once they gave full statements (Kessler's influence allowed them to give brief statements the night before and rest [and coordinate their stories] before going in for formal statements) that the Galveston PD had discovered the probable dwelling place of the two men arrested as kidnappers and that the credit card used to pay for that apartment was in the name of 'Gwen Delvano'. No picture on the card and no description available, just the name.

As Alice Talbot had been rescued from captivity before Kessler even knew for sure she was gone, the application of his influence was not actually to have the police respond in full force. Kessler and his organization are involved, deeply, with many figures in law enforcement, specifically to be able to insert themselves into investigations of 'occult' cases.

Kessler had arranged for an attorney to represent Ronald E. Green, the acolyte cultist and reluctant accomplice involved, specifically in order to prevent him from disclosing any inconvenient details that conflicted with the PCs sanitized version of events. There are also psychiatrists from UTMB who are supposed to speak with the suspects, to verify their sanity, and these psychiatrists are used to arranging for rogue occultists to be declared quite unfit for trial and then housing them in deep, dark secret facilities where those who have tangled with the occult and lost are kept.

The PCs were probably going to convince Kessler to transport 'Gwen Delvano' out of the country, to an island in the Caribbean where Kessler can make people disappear without a trace. There, at a private facility designed to hold insane occultists, malevolent sorcerers and cultists of Things Man Was Not Meant to Know, they would have debriefed her extensively.

Raul's desperation measure, of anonymously informing police that 'Gwen Delvano' was being held on board the Penemue, which he did at some point after 22:00, but before 23:45 on December 28 (depending on how long he felt he needed to prepare for an ambush), prevented the PCs from making her disappear for good. It did, however, leave Raul with the problem of wresting her out of the hands of the police instead.

If he goes through with his plan, any version of it that involves a firefight and an armed seizure of 'Gwen Delvano' from police custody, all hell will certainly break loose. And yes, the authorities of Galveston County will certainly be most anxious to avoid offending Mr. Kessler, as he is known to lavishly support Sheriffs and Chiefs of Police he likes and to sponsor political opponents to run against Sheriffs or anyone else he dislikes.

But, in the first minutes after the first shot is fired, those reacting will be ordinary officers on patrol, dispatch personnel and the Sergeant in charge of the shift. Both Sheriff Henry Trochesset and Chief of Police Vernon Hale have gone home for the day and given the huge investigation that started at the end of the previous day, neither had slept much, if at all, for the past 36 hours.

They will be woken, but it will take a minute or more just to make that decision and it may take several minutes before they can usefully realize what is going on. And it's unlikely that anyone will consider political implications until at that point, i.e. after several minutes, by which time Raul certainly hopes he'll be well on his way over the Galveston Causeway already.

Chief Hale is new to Galveston (he's been there almost exactly a year at this point), having previously served as the Deputy Chief of Dallas PD. As such, he doesn't know J.R. Kessler personally, beyond having visited him once out of politeness (and because several officers recommended it). Sheriff Trochesset, however, has known Kessler since Troschesset was born and during his entire law enforcement career, has deferred to Mr. Kessler as a great friend of the county and the law enforcement community.

Indeed, while Sheriff Troschesset does not actually accept bribes from Kessler, he is personally loyal to him, grateful to him for a multitude of technically legal favors and all but incapable of considering that anything Mr. Kessler wants might not be in the best interest of Galveston and the GCSO.

It is, in fact, quite possible that Sheriff Troschesset would call J.R. Kessler immediately after being brought up to speed on the shooting, while he is driving to work, and ask whether the shooting might pose any threat to Kessler or his people, whether there was anything that GCSO might do to help and what Mr. Kessler would prefer be done now.

Not that Kessler wants anything done beyond just the most efficient and organized police response possible, to prevent further harm and avoid having Raul, his men and 'Gwen Delvano' successfully escaping. If it would help, Kessler can call Governor Abbot, who went to school with Mr. Kessler's executive secretary, Ms. Marchant, and who represented Kessler while Abbot was at Bracewell & Giuliani LLC.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

you would still need permission from a governor to close it down

What's your source for this information? And just to be sure, are you speaking in a legal sense, or simply in a practical one? (That is, even if you have the legal authority to shut down a major highway, it might be a good idea to get the governor's approval first so that you don't make him mad at you. But that doesn't mean you "need" permission, at least in my mind.)

Texas law puts the authority for permanently (apparently) closing roads in the hands of a commission in each county, not the governor. I'd be surprised if temporary closures for public safety emergencies required even that much approval. Firefighters, for instance, are given authority to close roads (see Sec 546.007) in the performance of their official duties. Sec 542.202 at least alludes to the authority of police officers and local authorities to close roads.

What makes you say that the governor's personal permission is needed?

[AlexanderHowl]

I am sure that law only applies to state and local roads, not roads that are part of the federal highway system (which are funded by the federal government even if they are maintained by local/state governors). Each state retains sufficient sovereignty to allow the governor to close or redirect a federal highway in an emergency, but any mayor/comissioner who did so would be facing lawsuits, if not prosecution from the federal government. Even so, the statds could not shut down a federal highway permanently without permission from the federal government.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Briefly, if an ambulance escorted by one or two police radio cars were attacked by multiple men with rifles, killing 2+ police officers and 2 EMTs, how quickly could a response be mobilized?

The vital thing for getting a response started is a clear and accurate report that there's serious firepower being used, and where the incident is. You need to decide how successful the attackers were at preventing a report from the police and ambulance staff. Without a report, people will call 911, but it will take longer for the situation to make sense back at the police HQs.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The vital thing for getting a response started is a clear and accurate report that there's serious firepower being used, and where the incident is. You need to decide how successful the attackers were at preventing a report from the police and ambulance staff. Without a report, people will call 911, but it will take longer for the situation to make sense back at the police HQs.

Because of the necessity of hitting the vehicle moving their target before there is a chance that the police or EMTs will take a different route, the OpFor are essentially proposing to attack before the ambulance has driven even half a mile from where they started, at the berth where the Penemue is moored. In a direct line, it's only 350-400 yards, although, fortunate for the OpFor, there is no line of sight (several houses and some trees block it thoroughly), and anyone driving has to go around water and private gardens.

What this means for the OpFor is that they'd hit the ambulance, and however many police vehicles escort it, only about a minute or two after they left their fellow officers on the pier. Well, most likely, the officers not heading away would be on the Penemue, talking to PCs, not just sitting in their cars, but still, everyone; PCs, police officers and Penemue security staff, is going to hear a 20" barrel .50 BMG firing three to five shots in about ten seconds less than a quarter mile away. Ironically, the PCs may not have Familiarity with .50 BMG rifles, but the former Navy SEALs, USCG MSST members and USASF operators among Kessler's security will sure as hell recognise an anti-material rifle.

And 50+ 5.56x45mm rounds fired in close succession will also register pretty clearly over the occasional sounds of nighttime traffic, at least to anyone listening. So someone at the Penemue will call in, even if, by some miracle, the OpFor managed to drop everyone around their target without anyone managing to report the attack.

Granted, it's possible that the Galveston PD will not receive enough information to determine immediately if the ambulance and accompanying police vehicles were attacked on Broadway Street or if they had gotten on the I-45 next to it. This matters, of course, in exactly which route the first responders would take, especially the officers at the Penemue, who'd probably want to rush to the scene. Still, the first unit to get visual contact with the ambulance can confirm that.

Also, all local cops with any experience or sense will immediately know that the only escape by car that makes sense is over the Galveston Causeway by the I-45, so the authorities will know what they need to close as soon as they confirm what happened.

The problem for the first responders is that the total number of cops at Penemue is only eight, two Galveston PD radio cars with four patrolmen, one Galveston County Sheriff's Office radio car with two deputies and a couple of Galveston PD detectives driving an unmarked car. So, regardless of whether one or two squad cars follow the ambulance, what remains is not really a credible rescue force, as they are outnumbered by the OpFor and outgunned. To have a chance, they need reinforcements from the two police stations, which are about 1.3 miles away as the raven flies.

[Black Leviathan]

Response time to an armed incident is fast, probably 20 minutes. Maybe less if police were injured. Cops oddly find themselves available to respond faster if one of their own is hit. If this was a high-risk transport the police would have had back-up ready, the response time may be cut down by 5 minutes and could include SWAT.

The police may not have clear enough Intel to cut the attackers in a barricade. They may make an error in assuming their route or just decide they're not certain enough of where they perpetrators are going to sacrifice units that could be searching for them.

I don't know that the police would choose to block traffic to stop guys with assault rifles. They wouldn't want more police injured. They'd need to be sure they could minimize loss of life before they forced a confrontation. More likely they'd follow the vehicle with a helicopter until they can use a swat team in a controlled area.

If they stole the ambulance it's going to be easy to track. It's a big white truck with a number on top for IDing from the sky. They'll be able to track them with a helicopter or drone from so far away there's almost no chance the perpetrators will spot them.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Response time to an armed incident is fast, probably 20 minutes. Maybe less if police were injured. Cops oddly find themselves available to respond faster if one of their own is hit.

A lot depends on where the patrol vehicles are located.

Galveston PD might have anywhere from three to seven active patrol vehicles on the night shift unaccounted for. Unless Galveston PD have a lot more police presence than Reykjavík (where the PD is responsible for roughly four times the population and orders of magnitude more area) at night, there are only about three more cars on patrol right after midnight and there won't be all that many people at the station.

Galveston PD is just around 150 people, including detectives and support staff, which means that the patrol division is somewhere from 50-75 people. That makes it impractical to have patrol shifts that number much more than 10-15 people. So, Galveston PD doesn't have more than a few cars to respond with and unless midnight is a shift change for them, only one or two will be at the station, the rest will be, well, on patrol.

Galveston County Sheriff's Office is three times bigger, but more than half of their number are more like correctional officers, being responsible for the County Jail, prisoner transport, etc. There will be cars and officers at their station, much more numerous than at the local PD station next door, as they handle intake, processing, etc. Even so, absent a shift change, most of their patrol vehicles are spread around their patrol area, which is far larger than that of the Galveston PD. In fact, it can take a hour to get back from parts of it and none of the Sheriff's patrol cars will be patrolling near the shooting, as that's Galveston PD jurisdiction.

Total, unless shift change is at midnight, maybe three to six vehicles are actually at the two stations and ready to head out as soon as the officers run out, hopefully already wearing vests and with patrol carbines in their vehicles (actually optional, some have shotguns, some have only handguns). Random determination for how far away the rest of their patrol cars are, with no more than a couple having a chance of being inside Galveston proper.

Aside from that, it matters a lot how well coordinated the response from Texas DPS Highway Patrol, Gulf Coast Violent Offenders Task Force and any other departments or agencies that might lend support. To close off escape, the authorities need reinforcements from the other side of the Galveston Causeway.

Three cars with six cops in them, only half of whom have longarms, aren't going to successfully block two cars and a truck carrying a dozen men with longarms, especially not as all of the OpFor have combat experience (not all of them have professional military training, but all have fought several actions), two of them are competent former soldiers in their late thirties who have a lifetime of tactical and security experience, as well as proper training in defensive driving, close protection, etc., and one is a former Spetsnaz sniper with lots of urban warfare experience.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

If this was a high-risk transport the police would have had back-up ready, the response time may be cut down by 5 minutes and could include SWAT.

It was a fairly routine arrest of a person of interest, someone who might as well have been a vixtim or witness rather than a perpetrator. At worst, she was suspected of having been an accomplice after the fact. She did not resist arrest and the officers who take her in are thinking that it looks like she's another kidnap victim, but she was cuffed and arrested as a material witness mostly as a matter of procedure, because there is always a chance that she was with the killer willingly and was complicit in the murders.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

The police may not have clear enough Intel to cut the attackers in a barricade. They may make an error in assuming their route or just decide they're not certain enough of where they perpetrators are going to sacrifice units that could be searching for them.

There are two open roads where it's possible to drive from Galveston to the mainland. It's the I-45, which takes aroud six minutes from where the shooting is, and another, roundabout route, which would reach a point from where ,ultiple routes were possible again in about two hours.

In a world with radios, no one is going to make it out using the latter, because even the worst inter-agency cooperation possible would still have law enforcement waiting by the time the OpFor finished their scenic drive.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I don't know that the police would choose to block traffic to stop guys with assault rifles. They wouldn't want more police injured. They'd need to be sure they could minimize loss of life before they forced a confrontation. More likely they'd follow the vehicle with a helicopter until they can use a swat team in a controlled area.

This is why it's vital to know when there would be a helicopter in the air, who can ask for support from agencies that have one and how long it would take to reach the area in question.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

If they stole the ambulance it's going to be easy to track. It's a big white truck with a number on top for IDing from the sky. They'll be able to track them with a helicopter or drone from so far away there's almost no chance the perpetrators will spot them.

The OpFor will not steal an ambulance. They have two rental SUVs, two rental Chevy Malibu sedans, two very ordinary-looking sedans and one box truck. Of these, the SUVs and box truck take part in the ambush and one surveillance sedan hopefully passes unnoticed while going the same way. Their goal is to get over the bridge before response is coordinated, reach a side street and a parking lot there where there are three new cars waiting. Depending on how wrll they do, they'll reach that place in somehwere between six minutes (only if everything succeeds perfectly) and fifteen minutes (most likely too late), with a plausible margin being 8-10 minutes.

Is that soon enough not to be seen by a helicopter as they change cars?

Will they manage to get over the bridge without cop cars on their tail?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Three cars with six cops in them, only half of whom have longarms, aren't going to successfully block two cars and a truck carrying a dozen men with longarms

Three cars ... and a helicopter who will follow them, keeping an eye on them, while an ever increasing swarm of police forces show up.

If the bad guys want to have any chance of success, the first thing they'll do after the raid it split up and ditch the hardware, because their only chance is sneaking. Fighting is just an elaborate way of committing suicide, staying in the area will eventually get them caught (it will take a couple days for the response to ramp up fully, but there will be an awful lot of people looking for them).

Originally Posted by Icelander

This is why it's vital to know when there would be a helicopter in the air, who can ask for support from agencies that have one and how long it would take to reach the area in question.

Most urban areas will have something at least monitoring traffic in the air